MGS4 only running at 576p

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MGS4 graphical improvement

This is a rumour and nothing has been confirmed by Konami or Sony, however there are a bunch of very clever people over on the Beyond3d.com forum who have been analysing screenshots and video from MGS4 and have come up with the following.

As far as Uncharted and Ratchet goes, those two are full 720p, which is pretty good in my opinion. However, Quaz is speculating that MGS4 might run at 576p, which would be semi-disastrous if true. The quality would be noticeably and significantly downgraded from regular 720p, and it would provide copious ammunition for Xbox fans in the fanboy wars, whether that’s good or not. No doubt about that

Now honestly I don’t have much understanding of all of these resolutions. I know 720p is HD and that we were once told by Sony that all games will be Full HD = 1080p on the PS3. This has not come to pass and certain games like Halo 3 and GTA IV have looked awesome at 640p.

However 576p is coming in at 1/2 of what we were originally promised and I can absolutely guarantee you that if this is true the fanboys on the Internet are going to explode.

The guys on the forum seem to know what they are talking about so I recommend that both sides start preparing for an unprecedented flamebait Friday….

Neverending Upscaling/Resolutions/AA etc Thread #2 *Rules: post: #616 * – Page 16 – Beyond3D Forum

Last Updated: May 8, 2008

Gavin Mannion

I for one welcome our future robotic overlords

  • j4nrr1k

    What not running at 1080p in 4D, with dual HDMI output?

    I want my money back!

  • DarthPenguin

    lolz @ j4nrr1k….

  • Fox1

    Fanboy ammo :mrgreen: 😈

  • j4nrr1k

    But in all seriousness: 576p vs 1080p (promised).
    The dude that makes the game saying that they are pushing the PS3 to the max…
    Those lofty E3 2005 (?) PS3 announcements seem very very far of the mark in 2008.

    Maybe they should stick to making ducks float in a bath tub. They all seemed very exited over that.

  • This is a worrying trend indeed.

    I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again… We’ve seen the PS3 at its graphical-best already (IMHO that was in Uncharted).

    I can live with this fact, as long as they don’t continue to try and push out more polygons at the expense of resolution.

  • kabraal

    I’m sorry but I’m going to call BS on this article. While MGS will probably not render at 1080p and might quite possibly render below 720p like GTA, I fail to see how you can pin point a resolution by looking at a screen shot. First of, it’s probably a compressed screen shot of an in game cinematic of an incomplete game made for view on a PC screen. Or can I get the full 16:9 image somewhere? Like GTA4 which renders at 640p, if I display it on typical plasma, I’d still see 1024×768 pixels. If I display it on a fullHD TV, I’d still see 1920×1080 pixels. Doesn’t matter what the game renders at. I don’t even want to know what assumptions these guys are making, but it’s laughable and I hope none of them are in the aircraft of nuclear industry making the same kind of daft assumptions.

    Lastly it’s incredible how people have jumped on the “p” word band wagon the last year. It’s only resolution people. The PS3 will always output 720p by up scaling and if you can see a difference between the two, you’re either drunk, biased or just plain crazy. There are other things way more important that defines game gfx quality.

    Oh, and why look at a screenshot on a PC? Why not just look at the already released MGO beta? Both use the same engine.

  • LazySAGamer

    I recommend following the link to the source to see how the guys did it…

    It went over my head but they do seem to know what they are talking about and they are taking it from HD gameplay and HD screenshots…

    Apparently?
    Remember this is tagged as a rumour

  • JimBob

    When MGO is running at 665p, I don’t see why MGS4 would be any lower since it’s exactly the same engine and I think many of the environments are from the single-player game.

    It’s weird that this, from 21 April BEFORE the Beta, is dug up now, and the discussion that follows in the same thread about the MGO Beta is ignored. Micorosoft’s viral marketing is obviously hard at work. 😛

  • j4nrr1k

    True. But 665 is a far cry from 1080…

    Maybe they should add more ducks to the game.

    We love duck videos.

  • LazySAGamer

    Oh please Microsoft had nothing to do with this, I didn’t mentioned the MGO beta because my thoughts on that are well known. I am focussing on MGS4 only and it came up now because we are starting the run in to the release of MGS4.

    It’s not Friday so don’t panic

  • ocelot

    Just like GoW on the 360?

  • Fred

    As long as it looks good… btw gt5 prologue already proved what the ps3 is capable of graphics wise.

  • JimBob

    God of War 3 will probably be the next real benchmark for the PS3, considering that this franchise set the standard for the PSP and PS2.

  • kabraal

    My question still remains. Why not use MGO? Like Jimbob said below it runs at 665p. Even if they could acurately “guess” it from a screen shot, it’s still only a screen shot which they have know idea what was done to it. They haven’t seen or played the game. Fact remains, MGO is a lot more evidence as to what MGS will look like.

  • kabraal

    MGS and MGO are the same thing like we’ve explained many a times. Are there differences between the SP and MP of COD4? If so, then I’ll take this article seriously… 😉

  • kabraal

    The PS3 has been out a long time now. Yes, long ago they did promise 1080p games, and you’re still likely to get them some time. But the AAA titles have mostly rendered in 720p with a couple below that and they all look more than good enough. 1080p doesn’t equal good gfx. It’s common knowledge, get over it.

  • JimBob

    In some games there are differences between SP and MP, but it’s normally the MP that is degraded…

  • j4nrr1k

    No 1080 P does not equal good gfx…. but they where very vocal that HD starts at 1080P, slamming MS for calling 720P HD.. and now one of their most awaited titles cannot even run that…

    I don’t mind them talking big, as long as they back it up. Not at some far distant date, but now and here, when they want my money.

  • The guy doing the analysis is a trusted, recognized source and very well regarded. They do look at MGO an apparently it’s 665p.

  • The issue with this is not just “the p’s “. While yanks may not notice, 576p is actually native PAL SD. In other words it’s technically not even “HD’ish”.

    Now I’m the first to agree that as long as the game looks and plays great, who cares, BUT, what this is, is a big FU to all the PS3 fanboys who are on the one hand screaming “Who cares” about MGS and GTA4 upscaling, but at the same time claim Blu-Ray is a religious revelation compared to DVD upscale.
    😛 😛 😛

  • kabraal

    Actually I though of the same thing, but it goes both ways. Because there are tons of xbox 360 fanboys who state that they can’t see any difference between upscaled dvds or BDs. So why the fuss about all this?

    Anyway, there is a huge difference between pre recorded encoded video taken from a film print and graphics being rendered in real time. With live actual video you rely on the whole process of the filming and transfer of the video to get all that finer details. And with the limitation on dvd size and in particular overall bandwidth, a lot of detail falls away during the transfer from film to dvd.

    If you have a 4k master and you transfer it to 576p compressed encode so that it’s falls in the dvd bandwidth specs, you’re bound to loose detail. If you’re rendering a game with a descend game engine @ 576p or 720p or whatever and you want a pimple and pretty hair, you program for it and you render it there.

    Difficult to explain but the comparison between film and real time rendering is not quite accurate. Besides, games are far from looking like true real life full motion video anyway.

  • JP

    If the game is actually good, who really gives a fuck?

  • darthdad

    Exactly JP! Both Sony and MS are experts at the term “Bullshit baffles brains”. Gotta love all the fanboy comments.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    “Like GTA4 which renders at 640p, if I display it on typical plasma, I’d still see 1024×768 pixels. If I display it on a fullHD TV, I’d still see 1920×1080 pixels. Doesn’t matter what the game renders at.”

    I’m sorry but that statement is absolute bollocks. By your argument, DVD looks the same as Blu-Ray since DVD gets upscaled to 1080p. The system can’t magicaly imagine pixels where there wasn’t before, there will always be quality loss during upscaling. Why don’t the render the game at PS2 resolution and just upscale then?

    I personaly have nothing against running a game below 720p since they can spend more processing power on effects but 576p doesn’t look like 720p

  • SlippyMadFrog

    JimBob, on every negative PS3 article, you criticise LG, can you give it a rest and suck it up please?

  • JimBob

    Short answer. No.

    Long answer. You’ll notice that when he’s on solid factual ground he doesn’t get criticised. When he makes mistakes or digs up old news to stir or doesn’t fact-check or or misintreprets the facts, I’ll call him out on it, whichever platform the story’s about. (It’s just that the factual inaccuracies on PS3 stories are far more prominent because he doesn’t own a PS3 and really keep that up to date with PS3 news).

    End of story. It’s his blog. If he doesn’t want the criticism, he’s free to disable comments or ban me if he doesn’t like what I’m saying. Shrug / Hell, he can even ask me himself not correct him on factual points, like MGS/MGO being the same game or Mirror’s Edge actually being a multiplatform game, and I’ll comply.

    So you suck it up. I’m sure Lazy is a big lad who doesn’t need you to fight his battles for him.

  • Fox1

    :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Why would a game running on a graphics engine be the same as another game running on the same engine. If Unreal 3 was running at 720p on once console, but only running at 480p on another console, surely they would look different? The resolution makes the difference, not the engine.

    I must say though that with all the statements that have been made about MGS4 pushing the PS3 to the limit, I really dont know if it’s actually going to be coming in at under 720p, so maybe it is jsut a Wild Rumour. We will have to wait and see, Beyond3D is usually correct about stuff like this though… hmmm.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    Your complaint of this article isn’t based on any facts but your own assumptions:
    “When MGO is running at 665p, I don’t see why MGS4 would be any lower since it’s exactly the same engine and I think many of the environments are from the single-player game.”

    I don’t care about LG’s feelings, its just irretating coming on here and seeing you bitching about the articles when theres nothing wrong. Your comment could have stopped at the above quote but you carried on with yet another stab at LG integrity.

  • LazySAGamer

    There is nothing factually incorrect about this article, it is tagged as a wild rumour and the first line states it’s a rumour.

    To make you feel better I don’t have a 360 at the moment either so I guess I am now a Wii fanboy?

    Strange how owning a PS3 would make a rumour about an upcoming game more accurate? I must look into this 🙂

    I am also still not agreeing that MGO and MGS4 is the same game. MGO seems to be more than just the online version of MGS4, or that is how it is being marketed.

    I have never and will never censor people who disagree with me or anyone who writes for the site. It’s a free country…. the only comments I have ever deleted are spam and personal insults.

    There are a lot more vocal opponents here as well so don’t worry your not alone 😉

  • JimBob

    No, the complaint is that it’s old news that has very possibly been made irrelevant by newer news about the resolution that MGO (same engine, same game) runs at.

  • kabraal

    If you render at 720p and upscale to 1080p you lose fuck’ol quality with regards to lets say hair and facial details because you render it at 720p in the first place. There is nothing to loose! There’s no detail being lost in a video transfer! Don’t compare it with FMV!!

    Don’t get me wrong I’m sure there will be a difference between a native 1080p image and a upscaled 1080p image. But I’ll say it again, don’t try and compare all this with full motion video. The main reason DVD looks worse than BD doesn’t start at the upscaler but it starts at the source. It has everything to do with the fact that a DVD does not have the bandwidth to support a high bit rate video codec. So during the transfer process to the encode, dvd video will be compromised with regards to fine detail by being compressed which will lead to all sorts of macro blocks, distortion, and general noise and loss of detail. Now you push all that through an upscaler and you’re only magnifying the imperfections. A BD/HD disc has far more bandwidth to support high bite “less lossy” codecs. So you’re source is already far cleaner. None of these issues apply to an image that is rendered in real time…

  • kabraal

    Damnit man, MGO is the online component of MGS. Is it that difficult to understand? Or do you truly think they’ve been working on two totally different games.

    Anyway, I really don’t see how this Jim fellow attacked you in the first place. He disagreed with the article tagged as a rumor and he made a few valid points. Like you said he’s in his full right….right? Or must we just all agree with these articles all the time like ‘ol slippy says? “Ag ok, God said so, so I’ll just stfu.”

  • LazySAGamer

    keh? I never said he attacked me?

    And MGO is considered an online spin off of MGS….

    Once the game is released (MGS4) then I will humbly eat my words if they are as closely linked as COD4, Halo3, Gears, Resistance etc…

    I have been proven wrong before many times, but if I didn’t have an opinion what would the point be?

    Same as posting comments without opionions, also pointless 😀

  • SlippyMadFrog

    listen kabraal, every article jimbob accuses LG inderectly of being an Xbox360 fanboi and I’m sick of it. I’m not saying you have to agree with the article. If you don’t like what LG is posting, don’t read it. Its like he is playing watchdog here at LG.com. Is this so hard to understand?

  • SlippyMadFrog

    1080p doesn’t necessarily equaly good graphics? It’s funny how these PS3 fanboys change their minds after they discover their games doesn’t run above 720p. I remember how Halo3 was slammed for not running 720p, now it’s all good all of a sudden.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    “has very possibly been made irrelevant by newer news about the resolution that MGO (same engine, same game) runs at.”
    Link to this new news please?

  • Fox1

    Drop your widescreen monitor resolution to something similar that MGO is using. It’s not that bad 🙄

  • kabraal

    Bawhahahahaha, you crawl out of your hole when someone accuses LG of being a fanboy without any bases, facts or even knowing the guy, yet you do the presice same things to other people.

    LOL. What a gem.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    no, I can tell you are one based on your comments 😉

  • SlippyMadFrog

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot, LOLOLOLOL HAHAHAHAHAHA rofl!!!!!

  • Fox1

    GRiD demo up on Live ❗ GRiD demo up on Live ❗ GRiD demo up on Live ❗ GRiD demo up on Live ❗

  • kabraal

    Huh? What was that all about?

    Anyway…

    Just because my comments disagree with what this article claims you label me a fanboy. I might well be one, I might not. Fact of the matter is you’re being very inconsistant. ” 😥 I’m sick and tired of you labelling LG a fanboy. Damnit I’m just sick of it 😥 ” …. ” 😈 Hey you, I disagree with you and agree with this article. Fanboy hay, GTFO 😈 ”

    Doesn’t look to good for you in my eyes. Anyway, carry on. I had fun here today. I’ll be back to spam abit more latter on.

  • darthdad

    😀

  • JimBob

    Well, I’m sick of your posts, too, Slippy, so I generally ignore them.

    Maybe you could learn something from that. 😀

  • Charl

    I think the criteria for a fanboy would follow along the lines of: Defending her/his choice of console when bashed.

    wait, let me just get a real definition.

    ‘ Fanboy (sometimes spelled fanboi) is a term used to describe an individual who is devoted to a single fannish subject, or to a single point of view within that subject, often to the point where it is considered an obsession. Fanboys remain loyal to their particular obsession. ‘

    Grabbed from wiki btw.

    Wonder if we would have had this discussion if the spin doctors from Make-o-shit and Balony weren’t so dedicated?

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