MGS4 review: EGM magazine takes a stand

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EGMMGS4.jpg

It’s about time that someone does something like this. Not just anyone, but someone who’s actions will be seen and taken into account.

The people at EGM magazine have decided to not give Metal Gear Solid 4 a score due to restrictions set by Konami that they don’t agree with. The restrictions asked the press to not make any comments on the size of the games install size as well as make any mention of the games very long cutscenes (90mins at times!). No wonder Solid Snake looks so damn old, he might well be dead by the time the game is installed and the first large cutscenes are over.

There may be more restrictions that I am not aware of, but these two definitely made the biggest impact. Halle-freakin-lujah. I am so glad that they have made some sort of stand against the practices that are seen in the game industry these days. What is the point of a review if you aren’t able to make comments about something which could potentially be a flaw in the game.

I am disappointed in Konami for their actions and I am glad that news like this has made it onto the internet. Some people are interested in the long cutscenes and as far as I can recall, long cutscenes were apart of the MGS style anyways? As for the install size, so what, PS3 owners are getting used to them, unless they are really massive I can’t see what the big issue is. I don’t agree with installs on the PS3 but Konami looks a lot more daft from this news than they would from a large install on MGS.

Good on you EGM, I am proud that one of the media powerhouses is standing up to the publishers.

source: Kotaku

Last Updated: June 3, 2008

Nick De Bruyne

Video games writer, editor and critic since ’08. Living and breathing video games, movies and cars since the 80s. Follow me on Twitter if you love tons of gaming talk, and @pennyworthrevs for fun stuff and links.

  • Its not 90min at times, there is 90min worth of cutscenes…

    And Konami has put a restriction on the story cos if you know that why play the game?

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • darthdad

    “Good on you EGM, I am proud that one of the media powerhouses is standing up to the publishers.”
    😆
    Media powerhouse! 😆

  • bokka1

    No it is 90 minute cut scenes at one time. According to reports the cut scenes take more than half of the time of the game.

  • Miktar

    Wow. EGM did something to make the press actually remember EGM exists.

    Eh, sorry. It’s grandstanding. I have the same list of restrictions and you know what – I agree with every single one of them, since I think the game deserves to be taken on its merits. Did anyone bitch about how long the Metal Gear Solid load times were on PSOne? Sure… but it didn’t detract from the score. Nor did the long cutscenes, because that’s what fans want.

    So frankly, this isn’t news.

  • LazySAGamer

    Feeling a bit negative at the moment are we?

    Honestly I can understand and do agree to a lot of restrictions but there is always a line and EGM feel that Konami crossed it. I still say good on them…

  • JimBob

    It’s very heavily disputed just how long the cut-scenes are – I’ve variously heard that tehre are two 90 minute cut-scenes, one 90 minute cut-scene and that there are some lengthy cut scenes but none that run for an hour and a half.

    I feel that konami is doing themselves a disservice with this because it’s just confusing and people would probably feel better if they just knew the truth.

    As for the installs, I’m sympathetic to Konami’s problem even if I don’t agree with them limiting what reviwers may write outside of spoilers. So many news outlets harp on about install times to the detriment of more important issues, like how well does the game play, what does it look like, and so on.

  • ManesanZA

    The few reviews that are out barely talk about the graphics or the gameplay mechanics. Also none of them talk about the online component. Why?

  • It’s good to hear that from a actual reviewer.

    Making this article null and void.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • MGS online is a separate game.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • ManesanZA

    Im sure its not, can someone confirm?

  • JimBob

    Most of the mags played only MGS4 and not MGO at a special event hosted in Paris over two days.

    I’ve heard plenty about the gameplay and the graphics, but a lot of gameplay details like boss fights, vehicle section etc fall into spoiler territory.

    I preferred playing MGS2 and 3 not knowing what was coming gameplay-wise because Kojima always keeps one on one’s toes. Also don’t want to know too much about the locations the game will go to.

  • LazySAGamer

    The last time I mentioned something like that I was nearly lynched….

    It is apparently the multi-player section of the same game…. I am going to keep using the word apparently until the game is released and we get a consumers answer…

  • ocelot

    LOL, I find your comment about EGM existing really funny considering you write for NAG. WOW.

  • kabraal

    Well I’m just going to comment on the installs…

    I don’t really understand why they can’t release info surrounding the install. Even if it turns out to be 10GB.

    That said when I think about it, every single PS3 game that comes of with a install (most of them these days), is bashed to hell and back by the media for having a install. DMC4 was taken to the cleaners pretty much for daring to use 4.5GB of the PS HDD. How dare they!!??

    Seriously, if you read a PS3 game review (a review which you want to read about the game), almost always the first paragraph will go something like “this game has a huge 4GB install, it’ll be the longest 7mins of your life!! zOmg!! Fail! Run like hell!”

    Game install sizes are common now. We all know that. IMHO it should have absolutely zero to do with the final score of the game. Yes, MGS will have a install. Maybe it’ll be the biggest install we’ve seen on a PS3 so far. Maybe Konami just wanted the reviews which were done Pre-release to focus on the good and bad, and not on the seriously insignificant.

  • darthdad

    @ kabraal, Some people can’t handle there precious HDD being cluttered by gigabytes of gaming data. 😐
    I say they should stick to playing on a Xbox arcade, PS2 or Wii! 🙂

  • Fox1

    Installs take 20mins and they defeat the purpose of buying a console. Go buy a PC instead 👿

    And 5-10 Gigs installs may not seem much at first but you will hate it when you have to juggle what installs you want and what you don’t want when you start running out of space.

    Before you say go buy a bigger HDD, there is no HDD cheap enough that will allow you to install every game. Even a terrabyte HDD will run out of room at the size these installs are getting ❗ And buying another HDD just adds to the cost of the console 😡

  • darthdad

    Then stick to the 360 arcade, PS2 or Wii, if it’s such a bane to you. 😀

  • Milesh Bhana ZA

    maybe i don’t know enough about th MGS series, but I remember reading that you can hit a button at certain points to see flashbacks (it’s for people who didn’t play previous MGS games to get up to speed).

    I seriously doubt that they’d have a 90min cutscene. But maybe they let you watch all the “Previously on MGS” scenes in one go and that could be 90 minutes ? (saves you the trouble of possibly missing the prompt to see the relevant backstory). If that’s the case then I like it. As someone who didn’t play MGS, i would love that, a nice detailed explanation of what i missed so that i could appreciate it as a newcomer.

  • Miktar

    I happen to read EGM, EDGE, Games(tm) and quite a few European gaming magazines. Part of the job. I don’t get why my comment was funny, unless you actually got my joke, which I doubt.

  • Miktar

    Actually no, I’m quite perky today. EGM feel that Konami crossed the line, because EGM have some of the worst reviews in the gaming magazine industry. The entire document reads like a bitch-shlapp against EGM and other magazines that insist on writing reviews like walkthroughs. I find it ironic EGM actually made the fuss, instead of taking the hint.

  • Miktar

    Because the MGO section wasn’t active at the events the reviewers went to, where they got the play the game from start to finish. An oversight, I agree.

  • Miktar

    Nice to see someone understands the point of a review. I wouldn’t want to spoiler an iota of MSG4 for anyone, which makes writing a review slightly more challenging but worth it.

  • Miktar

    The install times on MSG4 were not anything I considered atrocious or problematic. They’re actually nicely spread out, so it doesn’t do one big install right at the beginning. I think the “don’t talk about the installs” comment in the Konami document is more so reviewers can just fucking get over it already, and stop making such a fuss about something that consumers don’t seem to really care about.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    I don’t know Miktar. Reviewers are supposed to be independant. If publishers enforce restrictions then how can we trust reviewers. If those restrictions won’t have an impact on the review then why place restrictions in the first place?

    @Jinja
    Isn’t EGM an “actual reviewer”? And a lot higher profile reviewer than the one you referenced? (no offence Miktar)

  • SlippyMadFrog

    I can confirm that you where almost lynched for saying its two separate games. 🙄

  • Miktar

    I was flown to Paris along with the other European press to attend the same calibur of event that EGM went to. I fail to see how they are “actual reviewer”, and I’m not.

    Yes, reviewers are supposed to be independent – but you misunderstand the restrictions Konami detailed in their document. A reviewer worth his salt wouldn’t need to even read that document in the first place.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    And if you buy a new HDD, you have to reinstall everything.

  • Miktar

    Sadly, nothing like what you describe is in the game. There are flashbacks, yes, but they’re in the form of quick flashes of images at certain points during cutscenes.

    Yes, the cutscenes are long. They’re supposed to be. It’s part of the MGS charm.

  • Fox1

    Um… The 360 Pro and Elite have HDD’s but there is NO need for installs on them 🙄

  • LazySAGamer

    I personally care a lot about the installs and will continue to bleat about every single one..

    If I wanted to install a game I would have gotten a PC, the console is meant to be easy for lazygamers….

    The install is easily the worst introduction to (console) gaming in this generation… even worse than Wii Shovelware.

  • Miktar

    I agree, installs are annoying and Japanese developers seem to have particular issue with just streaming their games like the West has managed to do sufficiently for how long now.

    And what’s wrong with WiiWare?

  • LazySAGamer

    WiiWare is fine-ish…

    I take it you have played some of the…. not so great Wii games 😉

    Don’t get me wrong though, I love the Wii…. I couldn’t imagine not actually owning one now…

  • Miktar

    True, but some WiiWare titles are solid gold. Both PSN and Live Arcade have some real turds on them, in between the diamonds.

    I try not to judge a Digital Distribution system based on its library after only a few months of existing. 😉

  • LazySAGamer

    I think you got my comments of Wii Shovelware mixed with WiiWare… I am complaining about the absolute crap that litters our retail shelves… not the digital download options…

    But Yeah if we are talking about digital downloads I would like to nominate Space Giraffe as the worst of the lot… If only to wind him up again 🙂

  • darthdad

    Are you all for digital downloads Fox?

  • Miktar

    Oh, doh. You’re talking about the third-part stinks that Ubisoft, Activision and such keep shunting out to try and make some money off the Wii. Yeah, those blow. You’d think they’d have gotten a clue-by-four yet and tried to follow what Nintendo is doing with the Wii.

    And Space Giraffe is genius too pure for the mortal gamer to comprehend. 😉

  • Fox1

    No. I’m only for DLC ➡

  • Fox1

    DLC as in add-ons. Not IPTV stuff :mrgreen:

  • kabraal

    Well the same stunts are pulled in the movie business as well. Look and Indy 4. Very little was known about the movie. Everything was kept under wraps with very few story revealing trailers. Hell people were still speculating about the story one week prior to release. Do you really think Spielberg would release a review copy to the press a week or two before opening up, while giving them free reign to write whatever they wanted?
    Long ago there was not internet and not instant world wide review web sites. You pretty much had to wait for next months magazine to get the reviews. So considering how fast rumors and information spread these days, I’m not really surprised with these phenomena.
    It’s pretty simple really. MGS will be released 12th June. Up until then, konami can pretty much do what they want with the press. If you want to review it before hand, stick with the rules. If you’re only interest is to complain about an install size (which a lot of reviews and publications do and which imho is totally irrelevant when reviewing a game), cut scene length or revealing potential story spoilers, best you wait till June 13th. You’ll have free reign then.
    @ Lazygamer. Seriously, the “if I wanted installs I would’ve gotten a PC” is a really silly comment. The difference between a non install console game and a PC game is pretty much 99.9999% the same as the difference between an install console game and a PC game. The only real difference between the two is that a console install game loads 10mins longer the first time it’s loaded. Ummm yeah… that’s about it.
    I really do wonder if we’ll still be bitching about install when the PS3 strikes its 10th birthday.

  • darthdad

    😐

  • LazySAGamer

    By the time the PS3 hits it’s 10th birthday the harddrives will be full of garbage installs and nothing will work 😛

    Installs are bad.. there is no rational to them what so ever and the only reason they are here to stay is because Sony didn’t put their foot down… You can check the archives, I said this was a bad idea from day dot and nothing I have seen has changed my mind..

    On the other point, I have to say that a 90/40/10 minute cutscene is relevant to a review and should be allowed to be spoken about… Gameplay/Story spoilers should not be mentioned though.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    “I fail to see how they are “actual reviewer”, and I’m not.”
    Who said you where not an actual reviewer?

    “A reviewer worth his salt wouldn’t need to even read that document in the first place.”
    Why does Konami have the need to hold everybodies hand when it comes to reviewing then? Why the special treatment for MGS4?

  • darthdad

    Well what is going to happen when “DLC”(thanks Fox) comes into play? 🙄

  • LazySAGamer

    On average most games don’t have DLC… so I don’t expect that to fill up hard drives anytime soon…

    If we are talking about an average install of 5 Gig’s per PS3 game those poor Japenese guys with 20Gb HDD’s are already suffering and the mass market 40Gb guys are going to start complaining before the end of this year

  • No you don’t.

    A PS3 has a backup and restore facility. Which I’ll have you know is absolutely brilliant.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • I didn’t say EGM wasn’t an actual reviewer, but was rather referring to the person who wrote the above article.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • darthdad

    Sorry Lazy, I’m not getting across what I’m trying to say.I know it’s a bit off topic.
    In the future Bluray will be surpassed by downloads. Therefore we will all have to have these huge mother^&#$ HDD’s. Some people seem to think this will be happening relatively soon.
    Is that not more of a hassle? Eggs in one basket and all that?
    I would much rather have a physical BD and manage a smaller HDD.

  • Miktar

    I blame Hideo. He’s got his finger in the MGS4 pie more than usual, and exerting a lot more control over his game.

    As for holding hands, there are quite a few “reviewers” out there who need it. Why don’t you try and consider that the document exists for a good reason, instead of a bad one, and see where the thought takes you.

  • Plus… no reviews of Grand Theft Auto 4 were allowed to be released before the day before release.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • Nice to know

    “They’re actually nicely spread out, so it doesn’t do one big install right at the beginning. ”

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • darthdad

    Yea, but that’s not a PS3 exclusive…. 😉

  • Miktar

    “Who said you where not an actual reviewer?”

    Sorry, I misunderstood a few chained comments. It’s hard to keep track of what’s going on here. 😛

  • Miktar

    This kind of publisher/developer influence over reviews isn’t anything new, it’s just suddenly news again because EGM are playing the underdog and trying to “stick it to the man”. In the US magazine industry it can get much worse than this, with certain publishers demanding their games not get below a certain score, in exchange for early reviews. EGM have often gone along with these deals, and not mentioned it to the gaming public at large, of course.

    So I like the irony that now suddenly they have a backbone… I wonder why.

  • ANYHOO…

    My vote is everyone just playing the fudging game and make your own opinion.

    Or don’t play it… No one is going to throw shun you for it.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • [Edit]No one is going to shun you for it.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • Oh yes, very true, no need to lynch them then. 😉

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • SlippyMadFrog

    The document may be a good thing or bad based on oppinion but I still think there should be no interaction between reviewers and publishers. If a game is good, the average score will reflect it. The reviews would have still been good for MGS4 even without the document.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    no probs

  • I am still very much against installs. It goes against the point of console gaming, which is simple and easy gaming, straight away. No installs, no minimum specs etc.

    If youre HDD is not large anough, you will have to decide which games to leave installed, when you want to play your other games again you will need to make space and reinstall them again? No way, thats not what I call accessible gaming for anyone.

    @Miktar – I see where you are coming from but Im sorry I dont agree with you. If Konami was asking them to not talk about story elements, twists, special weapons or characters, easter eggs etc. I would understand. But they aren’t, they are pretty much directly asking all reviewers to leave out something which is potentially harmful to the games rep.

    You also say that all of this is common and nothing special and that any decent reviewer wouldnt need it, It doesnt mean its right, I dont in any way see any reason for ANY publishers to be allowed to enforce restrictions on their games reviews unless they pertain to story or hidden features that the player will unravel as the play the game.

    How do install times and cutscene lengths affect or spoil a game to the point that it shouldnt be mentioned in a review?

  • SlippyMadFrog

    How does that work though? If you have 30 gig of installs on your old HDD, hows that data going to get to your new HDD? If it is the case that you don’t need to reinstall then I’ll gladly stand corrected.

  • Fox1

    Well it’s the consumer that’s going to buy their magazine not Konami. So EGM are showing the public that they are for the consumer and that reviews of MGS4 are getting manipulated by Konami.

  • You plug in an external hdd or memory stick into the USB port. Tell the PS3 to backup everything onto the external.

    Change your HDD, then do a restore from the external onto the new HDD.

    It puts absolutely everything back, your saves, your downloads, even every single setting and theme.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • Miktar

    Funny: the one time a publisher does such control for the GOOD of the consumer, EGM holds it back. Haw. Go EGM, self-pwn.

  • Miktar

    Actually, they ARE asking not to talk about story elements, twists, special weapons or characters. There are about 10 or so items on the list. The install thing is a MINOR thing that everyone is making a big fuss about. I can tell you, the MSG4 installs are not even a consideration, unless you’re really anal with your bits and bytes.

    “I dont in any way see any reason for ANY publishers to be allowed to enforce restrictions on their games reviews”

    Neither do I, and yet it has been happening for as long as the superpublisher.

    Look, basically if Konami had left the install time and cutscene length items off the list, EGM would have bitched about somethign else.

    The cutscene lengths SHOULD NOT MATTER IN A REVIEW.

    The install time SHOULD NOT MATTER IF IT DOES NOT IMPEDE YOUR GAME PLAYING.

    Yes, a long install time is a pain. MSG4 doesn’t have long install times, not compared to say, DMC3.

    You’re making a mountain out of a molehill and for all the wrong reasons.

  • oh wait that’s me 😛

    Your right though, I don’t review games for this exact reason… well that and I think it takes the enjoyment out of the games…

    LazySAGamer’s last blog post..Alan Wake is alive and kicking

  • Flash memory is the future…. Just add more when required…

    I prefer digital downloads, but only when we are ready for them

    LazySAGamer’s last blog post..Alan Wake is alive and kicking

  • oh wait it was Nick…

    I agree then, lets lynch him 😉

    LazySAGamer’s last blog post..Alan Wake is alive and kicking

  • I dont believe that EGM would have bitched about the other restrictions just for the sake of bitching. You are telling me that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, because I dont like it when places like publishers enforce restrictions like these.

    But you seem all too happy to sit back and just hammer on EGM as if they are some big joke that tripped, fell and became a huge gaming magazine by mistake. I don’t know why you feel compelled to complain about them, or is that just the in-thing these days?

  • Miktar

    Let me bottom line it for you, since you seem to keep missing my point. Stop defending so hard, you’re not the one under attack.

    I don’t like it when publishers enforce anything on reviewers either, but looking at this list in front of me there isn’t a single damn thing I disagree with. This is NOT the usual fair , this is NOT the kind of shit publishers usually ask reviewers.

    This reads like a “how not to fuck up your review and ruin it for the gamers”. Yes, asking not to talk about install length seemed a bit much, but asking not to talk about cutscene length seems perfectly fair to me.

    Talking about cutscene length in a review is like talking about how long the Burly Brawl is in The Matrix Reloaded in a movie review. It’s fucking retarded, sorry.

    I’m not complaining about EGM, but having dealt with the US press many times before I /understand/ why Konami made the requests.

    And I hate to say it, but EGM is a big joke. They’re a huge gaming magazine, sure, but so is Game Informer. Doesn’t mean they’re good. Paris Hilton has an album out that’s raking in the cash.

    EGM, Game Informer and such pander to the exacting tastes of an ever-evolving US gaming market, trying to compete with the websites (and look how Ziff Davis is losing bad, having to sell 1UP and their magazines, including EGM).

    Try to lean back and look at the big picture, instead of bitching on a blog, Nick.

  • Miktar

    I know its fun to try and copy-and-paste Kotaku and their sensationalist, antagonistic style, but I’d like to believe LazyGamer has more potential than that.

    And that’s it on this topic for me, because I have work to do. Magazines don’t write themselves.

  • Using my full power and command over the English language, I choose to reply by saying:

    lol.

  • Miktar

    Good man!

    I concur, with a lawl all my own.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    I stand corrected

  • Well done on trying for the low blow, real classy. I should probably go too. Articles don’t just “copy and paste” themselves you know.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    They don’t?!?!?!! Well this is news to me! 😯

  • kabraal

    Anyway, wait till June 12th then. I’m sure you’ll get your “full” reviews then. All with 2 pages of cutscene bashing and install whining. It’s only 9 more days. I’m sure EGM and ya’ll can wait till then.

  • LazySAGamer

    Oh now was that really necessary…..

    This topic seemed to be of great interest to many people so I severely doubt that we missed our potential here.

    I personally enjoy Kotaku, but each to their own….

  • No you!

    No you!

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • I really hope that MGS4 is worth all the hype and arguments. I havent really read any of the reviews yet but Im pretty sure the game is going to be really good, you can see that if anything, its different to a lot of games out there.

    I wish PS3’s were being rented out like in the old days. I would really like to play MGS and Uncharted. I wonder if there is anyone doing it near me?

  • ocelot

    I see a bit of jelousy there Miktar(lol). Don’t you wish you had your own podcast that thousands of people are subscribed to, or a magazine that is actually relevant and taken seriously? But hey, at least you are famous over at Neogaf, even if it is for all the wrong reasons.

  • Miktar

    I wasn’t talking about this specific article, but rather the “type” of “reporting” Kotaku does. Bread and circuses. Hey, if you think LG should be like that, go ahead. I’m not stopping you. I’m just saying there really isn’t a need for it, and the writers here have proven themselves more capable than just talking about what Kotaku is talking about.

  • Miktar

    If you thought that a low-blow, I severely underestimated you. And I wasn’t saying you copy and paste. I said you try. 😉 Chillax dude. You’re getting worked up over nothing.

  • Vamp

    Sheesh, that seemed a bit unnecessary. The conversation was
    going so good 😈
    Seems like we got a fanboy fight over magazines now aswell 😆

  • j4nr1k

    Uncharted is good, but not worth a system rental.
    Ratchet and Clank however… wowser! 🙂

    My MGS4 pre-order is paid, and I can’t wait to play it and experience it for myself!

    Reviews are always objective to the reviewer and the reader state of being.

    Konami should however have a thing somewhere on their website that states the system needs to play a game, before it it release: PS3 + x amount of free space.

    That would solve all this storm in a tea cup nonsense

  • Etienne Vlok

    Bullcrap.

    I don’t mind the install, but this is a GAME, not a movie. In a film review, it would be retarded to discuss how long a scene is, because the entire film is a collection of scenes which you merely sit back and watch.

    In a game review, it’s very pertinent, for the simple reason that people buy the game with the expectation to PLAY the game, not to WATCH it. If half of the length of the game is tied up in cutscenes, it should be mentioned, because this may influence the readers’ decision to buy the game or not.

    While I, personally, won’t mind a 90 minute cutscene – it’s very much part of how the franchise goes about its business since Metal Gear Solid – you’re lying to the consumer if you don’t point out the fact that the game is cutscene heavy to the extreme. As such, I wholeheartedly disagree with the restriction not to mention cutscene times, even in passing. It witholds pertinent information to the buyer. Given the history of the franchise, and how people have complained about excessive cutscenes in past MGS games, I very much think it is supremely relevant.

    Interesting thought here. Wasn’t Snake Eater your ‘Lame of the Year’ a while ago? What prompted the 180 on the franchise?

  • Exactly j4nr1k. You are dead on, I don’t think that things like install sizes should be kept secret mostly because people want to know what they are in for.

    If I was a ps3 owner with a small hard drive (don’t read into that the wrong way :P), I would like to know ahead of time if it might be worth my while to upgrade my drive so that I can make sure I have enough space for everything I want to play, download etc.

  • Vamp

    …sites. 😛

  • SlippyMadFrog

    Wow Miktar, showing your real colours here? Writing for NAG doesn’t make you so special mate ;). Get over it. I guess you like to piss people off since I remember the http://www.xbox-360.co.za debacle a while ago. Whatever floats your boat.

  • Vamp

    …and reporting styles 😛

  • Miktar

    Um. Get that Schattenganger outta here! I never once said writing for NAG makes me special, nor do I think that way. Sounds like you’ve got a chip on your shoulder.

  • Miktar

    We wouldn’t be gamers if we didn’t argue over trivial shit.

  • Miktar

    It’s odd though. Of all the PS3 games I’ve played that install content, MSG4 installs the *least* amount of data at any given time. Literally trivial, even with the smallest HDD size.

    I really don’t understand the fuss, other than making a fuss over people asking not to talk about it. Guess it shows people care more about the trivial things, than the important things, in gaming.

  • Miktar

    What is your problem, dude? I’m not in this for fame or glory or whatever you’re thinking. Besides, I think you overestimate the print run of EGM, have you ever gone and looked at it? We’re pretty much on par with NAG, but this isn’t /about/ NAG.

    And no, I don’t want a podcast. I don’t like em.

  • Miktar

    “you’re lying to the consumer if you don’t point out the fact that the game is cutscene heavy to the extreme.”

    Every review I’ve read says that the cutscenes are long, as is per expected with the MGS series. They don’t say exact lengths.

    And yes, MSG3: Snake Eater remains to me the worst in the series, because it is a broken game with the Survival Paradox system ripped out last minute and you know it.

    Stop resurrecting dead horses, Etienne. I see you’re still pissed at me for God knows what. 😛 Is it because you were banned from the forums for being a troll? It’s okay, you can admit it.

  • kabraal

    Imo, reviews should hit the internet and magazines the day the game launches. Not before hand. It causes to much controvesy. I can understand why Konami wants to try and proctect their media machine BEFORE the game has even launced.

    No one is lying to no one here with regards to game installation or cut scenes. It will be public knowledge soon enough.

  • Then why was it an issue to Konami? Surely this burnt them more than just letting people talk about it. If people must deal with installs, then they must deal with installs.

    But the fact that publishers and developers are trying to keep it on the hush-hush means that it is going to continue being seen as a flaw or a fault that could have been avoided.

  • Etienne Vlok

    I actually didn’t post once on the NAG forums. I wasn’t involved in that debacle at all, apart from having a good laugh about it in the FZ.

    But agreed, let us not derail the whole show here. You’ve adedquately addressed the issue – of whether it should be mentioned – and I’m content to leave it at that. Thanks for the answer.

  • Miktar

    The voice of reason in this sea of e-testosterone. You win internets.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    Of course you didn’t say it. Do you think that way? Well…

    Anywho, this is a waste of time. cherio

  • Miktar

    I dunno. Like I said before, I thought the install restriction was a bit dumb. I only said that I understand what they were going for, when looking at the ENTIRE document, not just the single out-of-context item.

  • Miktar

    You mean writing comments to blog posts on the internet isn’t a productive way to spend human life?! Ohshi-

  • Fox1

    Relax guys. No matter what score you give MGS4 or how much you bash it, Fanboys all over the world will buy it. It has a following just as big or bigger than Halo.

  • bokka1

    WOW! I posted the second comment this morning and actually worked the whole time and thought I will have a peak here and then i see this. 67 comments.

    @Miktar: I love my Paris Hilton dvd.

  • Miktar

    Eh, I was joking about the forum troll thing, but I think it didn’t come across right.

    Look, I know my views on MSG3 aren’t favourable – but that doesn’t change what I think about MSG1 and 2, not to mention 4.

    After all, I like Quake 1, kinda like Quake 2, think Quake 3 is cool but HATE Quake 4.

    MSG3 is a particularly sticky issue because while I consider it a good Metal Gear Solid, I felt the /game/ part of the experience was broken by Kojima removing a core system right before release, and only adjusting the survival systems, ramping them up, to compensate for the one-life system having been removed.

    I know most people didn’t get what I was trying to say, and probably because I wasn’t very good at saying it and remain pretty bad at it, from the looks of it.

  • Miktar

    And besides. The “90 minute cutscene” is goddamn awesome. I can’t imagine a single MSG fan having beef with it. It’s what you played the /whole game for/. 😛

  • It says so on the game’s box.

    Jinja’s last blog post..Evolver Music Video featuring Koekoemoer

  • Miktar

    DVD or the music album? And by DVD do you mean “that porno she was in, that I burned to DVD”? 😉

  • Miktar

    I wouldn’t say bigger than Halo, Halo has a more general wide appeal whereas MSG is pretty niche – but it DOES have a voracious fan following.

    Also, I don’t think this was about score. This was about Konami’s restrictions on early reviews and previews.

  • Now if THAT was a 90 minute cutscene in MGS4, no one would have any issues whatsoever.

  • SlippyMadFrog

    No, its entertainment, arguing with you is a waste of time 😉

  • Miktar

    I’m actually annoyed the Theatre Mode didn’t make it back into MSG4.

    I would have loved to have re-cast the cutscenes to have Meryl fight Meryl with knives while Meryl jumpes over Meryl to flying-kick a moo-cow robot.

  • Or have Paris Hilton doing things to Paris Hilton.

  • Miktar

    Um. Who’s arguing? Are you? Shit, sorry. I didn’t realize. I’ll try to argue too.

  • Miktar

    I’m noticing a trend here…

  • bokka1

    She actually have a music album 😉

  • abe

    This has gotta be some kinda record!

  • You are right. Its a record indeed! This is the most that we have ever discussed Paris Hilton before. Speaking of records, apparently she has one, with music on it and she like… sings and stuff. Sounds like a survival horror.

  • Well, back on topic. EGM hasnt really made a big fuss about any of this. Its not advertised in any way.

    I do know that Shane Bettenhauzen from EGM really loved it, so I am surprised that it wasnt given a score. I do find it strange that they decided to leave out the score, maybe they spoke with Konami and didn’t agree on a few other things as well.

  • Miktar

    Fair enough. I guess we contributed to the mountain out of a molehill all our own, didn’t we? 😛

    I still feel its a big fuss over nothing, especially since the game itself is (in my opinion) simply the biggest, noisiest, craziest concoction of self-referential fourth-wall-breaking insanity when you start hitting the later acts. It’s like a giant “thank you” to the fans. I enjoyed every second of it, the instant I got past Act 1. 😛

  • Vamp

    Can’t argue with that one 🙂

  • Etienne Vlok

    Wait. So you are aware what cutscene they are referring to with the oft repeated ’90 minute cutscene’? If so (and not bound by NDA), can you give at least a (vague) estimate of it’s length? That would settle a lot.

    Look, I respected your view on Snake Eater. While I agree removing core gameplay just before launch was a very bad move, I still enjoyed the hell out of it, in part of it was the MGS with the best story to it (IMHO.) As such,I for one am looking forward to a 90 minute cutscene. Oh yes, I am.

  • kabraal

    It’s 78 min 34 seconds.

    I want 4 hours cut scenes with SC2

  • kabraal

    /edit no wait, make that 8 hours.

  • @ miktar – Thanks for the mountain of pointlessness then that gets us right back to where we started, I guess it hard to argue about stuff when your not actually sure what side of the fence you should be on,but hey comments are for sharing your opionion so i dont blame you. I just wish you knew what that was. I only have 2 points – 1. If its sad that konami don’t feel strong enough about their game that they feel the mentioning of its weak points ie: install and movie length cut scenes, outweigh the rest of the game (which if all is true about this game is an insane statement) and 2. If EGM doesn’t review for those reasons that’s fine, and I say good on them.

    Gazza’s last blog post..Rabbids can balance?

  • The restrictions also included many things which could not be said so as to not spoil the game. And as well, not all reviewers were given the restrictions..,

    Cruiz Dwyer’s last blog post..New rumoured Sony controller not so new?

  • Miktar

    wut? This whole conversation is over, and you feel the need to ignore everything said and throw in your 2c. Nice.

    This isn’t even about Konami “not feeling strong enough about their game”, it has NOTHING to do with that. Why don’t you untie your panties and read the thread, dork.

  • Miktar

    Basically, the ending cutscene is FUCKING long, although it IS split across a few “scenes”, so if you total them together yeah it’s about an hour or so – it’s not like I was sitting with a stopwatch. I was trying to watch the goddamn ending cutscene of the game. I didn’t care HOW long it was or would be, I wasn’t bored and it was tying up more loose ends than a Virgo in a Telkom Box.

  • lol idiot your so right youve managed to make the whole thing about you. Go back to your mirror and keep telling yourself how pretty and intelligent you are.

    Gazza ZA’s last blog post..So itagaki leaves temco…

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