Hideo Kojima, the creator of the Metal Gear Solid games, has been chatting to Edge magazine and the outcome is not very pretty reading for PS3 fans…
It needs to be remembered though that Hideo is a huge perfectionist and is generally not happy with what it created. His disappointment in this interview though is more about the limited ability of the PS3 and not about his development team itself….
His biggest complaint is around the graphical capability of the PS3…
I remember saying three years ago that we wanted to create something revolutionary, but in reality we couldn’t really do that because of the CPU. We’re using the Cell engine to its limit
He then goes on to have a disguised jab at Sony and their prior PS3 promises..
Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not criticizing the PS3 machine, it’s just that we weren’t really aware of what the full-spec PS3 offered – we were creating something we couldn’t entirely see.
So is Kojima just being hard on himself and his team or are we going to be hearing a lot about the failing of MGS 4?
Metal Gear Solid 4: Kojima Disappointed With Metal Gear Solid 4
[Thanks to Karen for the tip]Last Updated: April 19, 2008
scotty777
April 19, 2008 at 07:48
this is what I was fearing right at the start of the next gen consoles. Development in games has increase massively since the days of the ps2, I mean, with the ps2, the developers really didn’t push the limitations all that much until the end of the ps2’s life and then most of the games had the same graphics,
today, we have developers that are getting to the point where they are gonna push the hardware until over coarse the games have similar graphics. unfortunately, the day these consoles run out of steam is fast approaching. It’s a shame that sony didn’t go all out for the killer gaming machine and ok media, and what ever the ps3 does.
🙁
RE: Gamer
April 19, 2008 at 08:15
This has got to come as a bit of a blow to Sony and MGS fans. With the hype machine starting to gain momentum what effect will this have on sales – look it will still sell by the bucket load – but Sony are banking on this to be the system seller, the game that’ll bring PS2 owners to the next gen. Oh well, I can’t see Sony being very happy. Expect an improved 360 version in December.
RE: Gamer’s last blog post..Kojima Jnr disappointed with Metal Gear Solid 4
SlippyMadFrog
April 19, 2008 at 10:19
Kojima said they are pushing the cell to the max. So I guess the argument that they are only using 30% of the cell power is not valid anymore. I guess we’ll see what 100% cell power looks like when the game is released.
Nduimiso
April 19, 2008 at 12:08
well its all sony’s damn fault, if they hadnt made such ridiculous claims about the ps3’s power which are still no where close to being met then kojima wouldnt have expected so much
doobiwan
April 19, 2008 at 12:57
Agreed, if they’d just set more realistic goals you wouldn’t have this sort of thing.
doobiwan’s last blog post..The GTA4 & Rock Band combo:Xbox 360’s European Assault
Darthdad
April 19, 2008 at 13:36
😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Fox1
April 19, 2008 at 14:29
If anyone was following the GPU wars back in 2005 and 2006 then you would know that the GPU in the 360 is superior to the one in the PS3. It’s the same card that has DX10 capabilities and if you watch the Gears 2 tech demo on GT then you would find some DX10.1 features in the game.
“We’re using the Cell engine to its limit”
A good CPU can’t help if your GPU is not good. It’s simple really. 💡
SlippyMadFrog
April 19, 2008 at 15:31
Agreed.
The GPU of the Xbox360 is a beast compared to the GPU of the PS3 while the CPU of the PS3 is a beast compared to the CPU of the Xbox360. When based on raw graphics, the GPU matters more. GPU = holding back PS3
RivaZA
April 19, 2008 at 16:06
Well it makes sense. I remember when the PS3 was first released there were many write ups of the Cell’s architecture from hardware websites, with one fact being the same across most, the Cell is the wrong cpu for the job. But the Sony fanboys did not want to hear any of it.
I don’t know if many of you know but the original spec for the PS3 had no dedicated GPU, but four Cell processors.
Hasn’t anyone ever wondered why there is such massive bandwith between the Cell and it’s main ram? It was supposed
to supply data for four Cell processors.
SgtFiddler
April 19, 2008 at 16:31
Hmm, strange then that according to this link, http://ps3.ign.com/articles/863/863825p1.html, this is definitely the system seller for the PS3, essentially promising that we aint seen nothing yet. Kojima has always been hard on himself people, so this aint nothing new.
Fox1
April 19, 2008 at 17:23
Yeah! That about sums it up.
Another worrying factor is why did Sony go with so less RAM.
Fox1
April 19, 2008 at 17:24
@Lazy- This article is flamebait material! 🙄
Darthdad
April 19, 2008 at 19:43
It’s 2008 guys!
2Three
April 19, 2008 at 20:13
MGS 4 won’t fail. Fans of the series will be pleased with it and it’ll do well. It’s just really interesting to hear from a developer that the PS3 doesn’t quite have the prowess that Sony claimed. But no, this won’t hurt what people will think of the game and it certainly won’t reduce sales.
2Three’s last blog post..REVIEW: Devil May Cry 4
ocelot
April 19, 2008 at 20:20
Kojima speaking before the release of MGS2:
IGNinsider: Now that you’re going into the final stretch of making the game, what do you think of your development experience so far? Are you still happy with your choice of PlayStation 2 for a development platform?
Hideo Kojima: It isn’t the hardware’s problem it is our problem, we will never find hardware that can live up to our expectations.
The man is a perfectionist, he won’t be happy even if he could make it for PC.
j4nr1k
April 19, 2008 at 22:17
“We’re using the Cell engine to its limit”
Eina bliksem…
Then again he is maybe talking to the engine that they created for the Cell, the enigine, not the actual hardware…. I’m sure some clever people would be able to milk more out of the Cell in years to come?
Darthdad
April 19, 2008 at 22:52
Does this mean that it will never come to the Xbox? 😥
LazySAGamer
April 20, 2008 at 07:01
It means that if it ever does come to the Xbox you won’t be able to stop the Xbox fanboys gloating for years to come…
Personally I have never been of the opinion that the PS3 is any more powerful than the 360.
RAM and GPU trump number crunching…
StNick
April 20, 2008 at 09:41
If Kojima is serious, then his next shot at it would have to be on the NEXT gen consoles, or on PC.
Just because he believes the PS3 doesn’t have the power to achieve his vision doesn’t mean that the Xbox360 does. It’s a great opportunity for the Xbox guys to imply as much though! 😛
Darthdad
April 20, 2008 at 10:27
How many DVD’s would we need?
doobiwan
April 20, 2008 at 11:12
While I agree with St Nick (He won’t be ever be happy) All I know is that rumours say his next project is for the 360, and it’s not MGS 😉
doobiwan’s last blog post..The GTA4 & Rock Band combo:Xbox 360’s European Assault
Abe
April 20, 2008 at 11:20
I still dont get the fuss behind MGS, and from what ive seen this game definately isnt taking the ps3 to its limit.
But something that we need to remember is that this is one developer! there were numerous devs that said the 360 had reached its limit last year already, and while the opposition loves statements of this nature, I think its merely a sign of bad developement!
ocelot
April 20, 2008 at 11:22
Xbots are forgetting that he already dissed the Xbox. And remember, he said Blu-Ray isn’t big enough for MGS…im sure DVD9 will be perfect.
Milesh Bhana
April 20, 2008 at 11:49
WoW, 22 comments and this hasn’t become a PS3 vs XBOX flamewar. I’m surprised!
I think you’re all right. I think Kojima is upset that this generation of consoles can’t realize his vision. On the 360 it would be better but you’re still talking about a 5 frame per second difference, and you’d be stuck with DVD9. (it’s a full BR disc, so that’s SEVEN DVDs).
THe fact that Konami claims to be using 100% of the cell means nothing, we will see better games on the PS3.
The biggest mistake that PS3 developers make is trying to fulfill Sony’s promise of 1080p @ 60fps. We KNOW that this generation’s hardware isn’t good enough for that. You’d get much better looking games and much more complex games if you optimize for 720 @ 30/60fps and use that extra horsepower for AI and effects.
kay
April 20, 2008 at 14:15
LOL @ “no flamewar yet” comment 🙂
Sounds to me like these guys should have put more effort into their game engine. There are many ways to utilize 100% of system resources; not all of them are effective! Witness the progression of game quality on the Xbox 360 since launch. The same thing is going to happen on the PS3, as devs figure out more efficient architectures the games will benefit.
That’s the beauty of any console – rather than just saying “use the latest and greatest GPU”, the devs are forced to innovate on the software side of things.
kay’s last blog post..Uncle Bob’s upcoming book: Clean Code
doobiwan
April 20, 2008 at 14:48
@ocelot
DVD9 is great, you don’t waste your time in stupid FMV cutscenes.
doobiwan’s last blog post..The GTA4 & Rock Band combo:Xbox 360’s European Assault
Milesh Bhana
April 20, 2008 at 14:50
as a developer myself, i definitely agree about the 100% resources used not being efficient code.
I think that the PS2 taught us this lesson pretty well. 7 years after it’s launch, the devs are still pushing it a little further. Look at the PS2 trailer for Star Wars : Force Unleashed, it’s amazing that they’re still getting that kind of functionality out of the PS2.
Anyone who looks at MGS4 and believes that that’s all the PS3 is capable of is in for a pleasant surprise.
SlippyMadFrog
April 20, 2008 at 15:05
xbots, nice
Tan365
April 20, 2008 at 16:37
Like always doobiwan, you talk about something you do not know or have experienced. MGS does not use FMV cutscenes… all cutscenes are in-game rendered, this has been the case since MGS1. Now go back to playing Gears pal 🙄
boredhousewife
April 20, 2008 at 18:39
I was a PC gamer long before I was a console gamer and over the years have spent more than a few Rand on updating ageing hardware. The best way to do this was always to drop a few gorillas on a kick ass GFX card et voila gaming bliss for another 6-12 mths – if money was tight you could add a few precious frames per second by maxing out your RAM. A cutting edge processor meant nothing if you did not have a decent GPU and sufficient RAM to go with it. The optical drive was of no consequence (except that 1 DVD was far easier to install than 6 CD-ROMS).
The point I am trying to make rather verbosely is that Sony seems to have done things a little arse about face on the PS3 , blowing the budget on the processor and optical drive and cutting corners on the memory and GPU.
Having said that the PS3’s contribution towards BD victory in the format war is not to be underestimated and perhaps the Trojan Horse strategy of a HD media device masquerading as a gaming console is to be commended
SlippyMadFrog
April 20, 2008 at 20:15
An interesting thing is that Heavenly Sword also filled a Blu-Ray disk and thats about 6 hours gameplay, go figure.
Milesh Bhana
April 20, 2008 at 21:21
Actually the whole point of the Cell was that it was meant to be both CPU and GPU. In essence they are the same, just one is more specialized. But if the generic CPU was more powerful, you’d not need a dedicated CPU. It’s like the whole hype about the math co-processor in the days of the 386. For the 386 and 486, it made a difference and now it’s part of the CPU and no need for a seperate processor.
Eventually there will be no need for a GPU. Why do you think AMD and ATI have joined forces?
The mistake Sony made was simply believing that the Cell was that step. Hence the skimping on the GPU at the last minute when they realized they were wrong.
But despite watching their lofty goal fall to pieces, why on gods green eath did they decide that 256 MB RAM was enough? Everything about the PS3 is good enough. But that RAM will be the achilles heel on the machine.
StNick
April 20, 2008 at 22:11
“On the 360 it would be better but you’re still talking about a 5 frame per second difference…”
StNick
April 20, 2008 at 22:13
“On the 360 it would be better but you’re still talking about a 5 frame per second difference…”
That’s a pretty brave statement to make in these parts… not to mention completely unfounded.
janrik
April 21, 2008 at 07:29
Also I nice way of covering his ass, by blaming the hardware…
JimBob
April 21, 2008 at 07:55
The PS3 has exactly the same amount of RAM as the 360 – 512 MB. However, it splits it into 256 video and 256 general RAM, where as the 360 offers 512 Mb of unified RAM, which is more flexible for developers to work with. That’s one reason why 360 ports to the PS3 are often disasters, because the developers don’t rejig their code to run on the PS3’s architecture.
I can’t believe this belief still lingers. 🙄
As for the rest, carry on. It’s both sad and funny how desperate some of you are for this game to fail. Will that magically make your Xbox 360s better?
koldFU5iON
April 21, 2008 at 08:36
and so it begins
CAPTAIN BEER
April 21, 2008 at 08:36
😈 paying so much money for the ps3 ,you want it to do well, but with rumours like these , i just dont know what to believe anymore… is it time to buy a xbox360 or should i keep my ps3…please help
yoda
April 21, 2008 at 09:09
is it time to buy a xbox360 or should i keep my ps3 ,why o why … please help!!!
bhw
April 21, 2008 at 09:24
Keep the PS3 to watch BD movies (BluRay Disc not Bondage & Domination – though you could probably get the latter in HD) and get the X360 for exclusives like GOW2 , DLC for GTA IV and superior quality Multiplatform releases from EA and Ubisoft.
doobiwan
April 21, 2008 at 10:18
@yoda and cpt Beer (10 points for the tag 😉 )
I agree with bhw, the Arcade is only R2k, you can pick up a Pro for ~R2800, unless it’s absolutely necessary why not have both? Other than that I’m a 360 man all the way…
@Jimbob just to clarify, you’re 100% on physical RAM allocation BUT, the PS3 Operating System Takes something like 70-90Mb of RAM on it’s own (I believe it’s 60/30 split between Main&Video) The 360’s OS is limited to 32Mb. So the actual available RAM on the PS3 is less.
Also consider “In game XMB” would need to take a chunk of that and you realise why it’s taking them so long to get it right.
doobiwan’s last blog post..The GTA4 & Rock Band combo:Xbox 360’s European Assault
JP
April 21, 2008 at 18:18
I’ve read about four or five comments just now that say the ps3 has less ram than the 360. That isn’t the case. They both have the same amount of ram. The difference is how it’s shared. In the ps3 the cpu gets 256mb and the gpu 256mb.
In the 360 it’s a pooled 512mb that can be shared as needed. Eg you could give 511mb to the cpu and 1mb to the gpu or vice versa. The developer decides how it’s shared.
doobiwan
April 21, 2008 at 18:39
I swear some people don’t read :$
Darthdad
April 21, 2008 at 18:57
You are so right there Doobs. I wish I knew more about the power of the PS3.