Home Gaming Spielberg and Lucas agree that games are not art

Spielberg and Lucas agree that games are not art

2 min read
80

George, George, George of the Jungle

While the quality of output from Steven Spielberg (recently) and George Lucas (always) has been hotly debated what cannot be ignored is the size of their bank accounts – and the power they have over the industry and the mainstream movie goer.

So when they team up to deride gaming together we need to sit up and take notice, and that is what has just happened recently at the Independent Film Festival. Most of the panel was understandably taken up by talk around films but at some point the pair were asked whether or not they believed gaming could be considered an art.

Spielberg’s answer in particular hits home for me when he said that gaming as a medium are not able to create empathy with the characters on screen like you can in a movie. In particular

“The second you get the controller something turns off in the heart, and it becomes a sport”

I’d agree with him for most games but I can’t say I’ve been more empathetic to any movie character as I was for the main character in Braid. Some of you will say The Last of Us or Bioshock or maybe even Chell from Portal. What matters here is that a lot of gamers have felt real empathy towards a video character and while I seriously doubt anyone has felt empathy for Gerrard in FIFA 13 or Ghost in Call of Duty it doesn’t take away from what the medium can offer.

I think what it does show is that these two titans of entertainment are far removed from the video game industry and in all honesty that isn’t such a bad thing. No one expects them to be leaders in every field of entertainment; they also believe painting, sculpture and music are second rate art mediums. So yeah I think they are biased.

Looking forward however they are not as closed minded – with George Lucas expecting us to be able to opt for brain implants in the next 10-15 years that will allow us to control our dreams and pre-load experiences before hand. He doesn’t believe it will take away the need for story tellers but then again I think he’s ignoring the fact that 99% of people will simply stick their lust crush in the dream with little clothing and see what happens.

What do you think though, is gaming a valid art form and would you be interested in controllable dreams?

Last Updated: July 22, 2013

80 Comments

  1. OVG

    July 22, 2013 at 09:53

    Somebody force the old timers to play The Last of Us.
    Shit, I cared more for Elizabeth in Infinite than any of his shit character building in that CGI ball fest called Star Wars.
    Hell, even Nathan Drake had more depth than Indiana Jones.

    Old Timers.

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

      July 22, 2013 at 10:11

      Old timers eh?

      I see what you did there…

      Reply

      • OVG

        July 22, 2013 at 10:16

        I suppose having Jim Henson’s hand shoved up my bottom makes everything art to me Bwahahahahaha

        Reply

        • RinceWind

          July 22, 2013 at 10:17

          Well that escalated quickly…

          Reply

          • Vampyre Squirrel

            July 22, 2013 at 11:34

            Rather quickly…

    • Taiwanese Guy

      December 15, 2013 at 06:22

      “Artist’s are bold adventures who create new content from outside the borders of the medium.”

      Problem with THESE Anti-Science AND Anti-Evolution TECHNO-PHOBES is that they have NO RESPECT for our VIDEO GAME CULTURES and also NO RESPECT for our VIDEO GAME MEDIUM as its own unique MEDIUM, which is very unlike FILMS and also unlike ART! These ARTsy-FARTsy think our VIDEO GAMES are made WITHOUT any CODERS and WITHOUT any DESIGNERS! Many of these kinds people can only see ART SECTIONS of VIDEO GAMES rather than TOTALITY of VIDEO GAMES!! {roll my eyes}

      SEARCH & READ “First Video Game? – YouTube”
      SEARCH & READ “Bui Tuong Phong” (Phong Shading)
      SEARCH & READ “Minh ‘Gooseman’ Le” (Counter-Strike 1.6)
      SEARCH & READ “Best game ever! Star Control 1 – YouTube”

      Let’s frame this correctly…. ART can never ever be GAME! FILMS can never be as great as GAME either! ART will never be as FUN as our VIDEO GAMES! FILMS certainly can never be as FUN as our VIDEO GAMES, too! ART is LAME and for PRETENTIOUS PEOPLE, who enjoying over-paid on PUKING Jackson Pollock CRAPS! FILMS are BORING as well and really for OLD FARTS just like that Roger Ebert and BABY BOOMERS that will soon die out along with their Joe Lieberman [I], Jack Thompson [R], Dianne Feinstein [D], and so on Anti-Video Games CRONY Useless EATERS that DID NOTHING FOR WORLD except turning every GOOD now a day to CRAP!! >=(

      SEARCH & READ “The Art of Propaganda – YouTube”
      SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – Lying Politicians And Words”
      SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – Baby Boomers and Politicians”
      SEARCH & READ “Why Baby Boomers Suck – patmathis”

      SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – Dealing With Homelessness”
      SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – advertising and bull shit”
      SEARCH & READ “George Carlin on white people”
      SEARCH & READ “George Carlin ~ The American Dream”

      SEARCH & READ “The Video Game as a Medium | The Ludosphere”
      SEARCH & READ “A clash between game and narrative – Jesper Juul”
      SEARCH & READ “Where Stories End and Games Begin – Greg Costikyan”

      VIDEO GAMES are GAME not ART and certainly not FILM! FILMS are LAME these days with REBOOTS and REMAKES such as SUPERMAN RETURN [ ART MEDIUM > FILM MEDIUM!! >=P

      Reply

  2. Jonah Cash

    July 22, 2013 at 09:58

    You take that back!!! Don’t touch me on my Gerard!!!

    But seriously why do we care what Old and Older have to say? They probably don’t know anything about games, doubt either have ever played one from start to finish!!

    Reply

    • Michael Young

      August 31, 2013 at 14:06

      Actually Spielberg is a gamer, aside from directing original material for video games, and helping create the “Medal of Honour” series, he owns a PS3, an Xbox 360, a Nintendo Wii and a PSP. He also says that he’s against cutscenes in games, saying that the story should flow naturally alongside the gameplay.

      Reply

  3. Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

    July 22, 2013 at 09:59

    Serious Dejavu here. Did I not read about this before on Lagz?

    Still don’t agree with them though. They don’t understand gaming. That’s all.

    Reply

  4. Umar Kiiroi Senk?

    July 22, 2013 at 10:01

    Art – Oxford def: [mass noun] the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power

    I could name the obvious choices such as Journey or Limbo, games which has a very artsy feel to it, but is art not that which evokes emotions inside of us? … So many games make us care, make us feel things we have never felt before. is that not art? But alas, video games are yet again seen as nothing more than heartless violence simulators … Society still doesn’t get gaming

    Reply

  5. RinceWind

    July 22, 2013 at 10:03

    Oh man, really? These guys are cut from the cloth of old and ignorant. Lock them in a room and make them play the Las of Us or Mass Effect.

    Reply

  6. Xelus

    July 22, 2013 at 10:06

    And this is coming from someone that milked a franchise till it died (Star Wars). Way to go, perfect example of what isn’t art. Go die somewhere in a corner, game developers still have more creativity than any damn movie creators, but it just goes to show how little the movie industry knows about the gaming industry. Bah!

    Reply

  7. Trevor Davies

    July 22, 2013 at 10:07

    Being respected in one art form doesn’t mean you’re able to pass judgement on any art form. It’s their opinion, and they’re more than welcome to be wrong. There may or may not be an emotional connection, it depends on the player & the game.

    And no, I don’t want controllable dreams or crap being loaded into my brain via an implant.

    Reply

  8. Sageville

    July 22, 2013 at 10:13

    Art is in the eye of the beholder, I’m sure I heard that before? Maybe from their perspective, games aren’t art, but it’s presumptous to assume others don’t see some games as art.

    Frankly I’d be surprised if these two have ever picked up a controller in their lives.

    It’s sort of like saying a game is shite when you haven’t played it at all.

    Reply

    • Skyblue

      July 22, 2013 at 10:32

      But we all know that the new COD will be shite… trolololol

      Reply

    • Michael Young

      August 31, 2013 at 14:08

      Wel actually, if you do your research you’ll know that Spielberg is actually a gamer!

      Reply

  9. CrasH

    July 22, 2013 at 10:19

    I understand SB saying such a thing, His old, makes horrible movies these days and was asked about gaming at a film festival, so answering any other thing than no could take focus away from the event.

    But the previous owner/creator of lucasARTS and saying its can be ART… i guess it shows why especially the last couple of games, just have been soo bad… Maybe he had to play his own companies newest releases for a weekend and thats why he sold the company?

    Reply

  10. ElimiNathan

    July 22, 2013 at 10:20

    Thanks for your opinion Mr Tera Nova

    Reply

    • Skyblue

      July 22, 2013 at 10:31

      LOL yeah! How bad was that series! Neither Lucas nor Spielberg have stayed current and there are far superior story tellers working in cinema now. Credit to them for how they changed the landscape and boundaries of film forever though.

      Reply

      • Gavin Mannion

        July 22, 2013 at 10:33

        No I loved Teranova… I was distraught when it was canned

        Reply

        • Skyblue

          July 22, 2013 at 10:37

          So was my 8 yr old

          Reply

        • TiMsTeR1033

          July 22, 2013 at 10:37

          I loved Teranova too! was bullshit they scrapped it! Never looked into why though….

          Reply

          • Skyblue

            July 22, 2013 at 10:42

            Because you and my 8yr old were the only people watching it. I suspect Gavin is just trolling.

          • TiMsTeR1033

            July 22, 2013 at 10:43

            What was wrong with Teranova? seriously there are far worse series like Desperate housewives I hate that shit!

          • Purple_Dragon

            July 22, 2013 at 10:51

            I thought it sucked. I thought it had a really good idea but it ended up being a show about the teens again. Sorry, I don’t want to watch “oh poor me” or “oh I’m in love” teen behaviour in a show like this. All the simpering shit just turned me off.

          • TiMsTeR1033

            July 22, 2013 at 11:09

            Yeah okay I admit I didnt like the teen crap too, but I thought that would get better in “season 2” and yeah never will know.

          • Skyblue

            July 22, 2013 at 10:52

            The first episode of Terra Nova was fine, the rest was unadulterated crap. I shouldn’t have to be explaining this to you so just watch these instead:

            Breaking Bad
            Game of Thrones
            The Soprano’s
            The Killing
            Sons of Anarchy
            The Wire

        • ElimiNathan

          July 22, 2013 at 11:03

          It had so much potential, but unfortunately it was like biting into chocolate covered shit, disappointing.

          Reply

          • Purple_Dragon

            July 22, 2013 at 11:22

            Best description of it I’ve heard.

        • Matthew Holliday

          July 22, 2013 at 13:31

          But spielberg only did the pilot episode of terranova didnt he?

          then again, the first episode was by far the best, spielbergs attention to detail is second to none.
          the way he used an orange to make the characters feel human, while not original in the slightest, was well done.

          Reply

          • Tbone187

            July 22, 2013 at 14:48

            Wouldn’t one credit the writers or creators for the concept of the scene?

          • Matthew Holliday

            July 22, 2013 at 20:21

            maybe, but once Spielberg backed out after the pilot, the little moments like that sorta disappeared.
            the directors are the ones that make the scenes happen and dictate how the scenes will play out though, so the directors take as much credit as the writers/producers.

  11. Amanda Nomlanga Acton

    July 22, 2013 at 10:22

    Just last week Absa announced the winner of their big yearly art comp. The winning piece was described as such: “A 1,8 m high association-rich obelisk confronts the observer with the intimate action of a stud-bull’s seminal discharge. The observer is encouraged to ‘listen in’ voyeuristically to the ‘agri-porno’ on the screen.”

    Seriously. When it comes to the art world, anything goes. As long as you can sell it, you can call it whatever you damn well please. And just because you don’t understand or like something, doesn’t discredit it. If it has an audience, it has an audience.

    Reply

    • Skyblue

      July 22, 2013 at 10:39

      ABSA? Always knew they were a bunch of dicks but honestly, I never saw this one coming

      Reply

    • Matthew Holliday

      July 22, 2013 at 13:37

      In art, motivation is everything.

      While I hate the fact that anyone can motivate anything towards being art, having people like spielberg and lucas, who are icons in their fields say “The second you get the controller something turns off in the heart, and it becomes a sport” is just callous and reeks of jealousy.

      they cant handle that people cared more about what happened to Commander Shepard, heck even the side characters, more than they cared about what happened to Private Ryan or Luke Skywalker.

      Reply

      • Amanda Nomlanga Acton

        July 22, 2013 at 15:09

        The funny thing about this is that their “art” falls on the same level as games. Both are entertainment art. If they think Jurassic Park and Star Wars are somehow great works of intellect that games just can’t touch, they’ve been smoking some pretty powerful stuff.

        Things like Sweeney Todd, 9, Tarantino movies, those go to a slightly higher level… and then you get the really arty films… It’s all in different levels. And I’m honestly amused that they see their movies as somehow above the average game.

        Reply

  12. Guest

    July 22, 2013 at 10:23

    Controllable dreams, meh, had them for decades

    Reply

    • Zubayr Bhyat

      July 22, 2013 at 12:13

      MASTER SYSTEM II <3

      Reply

  13. Zubayr Bhyat

    July 22, 2013 at 10:28

    This is sticky debate and I know basically nothing about art itself. Pointless debate, games are interactive and most art isn’t. As to the question of where to draw the line I can’t answer this because everyone has an opinion, including Spielberg and Lucas – even if they differ with those passionate about games.

    Reply

    • Amanda Nomlanga Acton

      July 22, 2013 at 10:35

      On the contrary, the Fine Arts are currently very excited about “new media” and interactive works. Fine Arts just happens to be rather far out of the mainstream view, but if you do go to some exhibitions of the more experimental works, you will see quite a bit that will have you questioning this whole “art” thing. There are pieces where you stand in front of a Screen with a brush and the strokes you make are mapped on the screen. There are video installations, pieces with headphones waiting to be worn, massive constructed tunnels to be walked through. It’s an incredibly diverse world. Everything is art. It just depends on the language used to “explain” it. 😛

      Reply

      • Zubayr Bhyat

        July 22, 2013 at 10:52

        So what you’re saying is that those who say games are not art are a bunch of snobs? 🙂

        Reply

      • Matthew Holliday

        July 22, 2013 at 13:41

        Ive always found the integrity of installation art questionable.
        on the same level as butthurt Dadaists.
        its all just… too easy to fake, it makes the whole industry, trollbait.

        Reply

        • Amanda Nomlanga Acton

          July 22, 2013 at 15:12

          Depends on the installation. 😛 But the Dadaists had a point. They made sense in their specific time era. Trying to get away with that no however… but people do. It’s the art of mind fuckery and bullshit though that they’re selling. Not the actual artworks. 🙂

          Reply

  14. Brenz

    July 22, 2013 at 10:32

    After how they raped Indy they can suck each others balls all night long.
    They shouldnt be flapping their gums regarding things they know nothing of.
    I cared about Ellie more than any movie character, and Elizabeth in Bioshock. But then again I care about dogs more than humans in movies, hehe.

    Controlling dreams would be awesome though, never been able to do it myself although people have told me it is possible.

    Fuckin jar jar binks, still annoys me to this day.

    Reply

    • Skyblue

      July 22, 2013 at 10:35

      Mesa see your point

      Reply

      • Zubayr Bhyat

        July 22, 2013 at 10:53

        Mesa kill you for saying too.

        Reply

    • Zubayr Bhyat

      July 22, 2013 at 10:54

      So will you have your own next-gen dog?

      Reply

      • Brenz

        July 22, 2013 at 11:06

        hells yeah, as long as it doesn’t come in the form of a call of duty game

        Reply

  15. brad coetzee

    July 22, 2013 at 10:58

    Mmm, my feelings went ow when I got some of my favourite squadies killed in Mass Effect. i also really wish John Marsten from Red Dead Redemption were a real man. That ending exploded my feelings too.

    Reply

    • TiMsTeR1033

      July 22, 2013 at 11:09

      They shot the shit outta Marsten! good times lol

      Reply

  16. FoxOneZA - X-Therminator

    July 22, 2013 at 10:58

    But I do feel for Gerard. I feel bad for him having to play for LFC.

    Does that make me bad? XD

    Reply

    • Darthdad

      July 22, 2013 at 11:59

      I wouldn’t feel to bad for him, he earns 140000 pound a week. Playing for the club that he has always supported and loved his entire life. And I don’t think that makes you a bad person. XD

      Reply

  17. Ryanza

    July 22, 2013 at 11:28

    Art is like creating something out of nothing. Hold a pen in your hand. Now move that pen around on a piece of paper. You have successfully created art.

    Is it good art, maybe not. But a creating a game is a lot more than just pen to paper.

    This topic has been brought up before. Bioshock 1 as a product, to me felt like art. Bioshock 1 gave me a good story, would you kindly, go kill Jar Jar Binks. Bioshock 1 gave me lots of visuals. Time piece set in an alternate universe, kind of visuals. Different visual characters (that i get to kill). Visual level design. Visual weapon upgrades. Just standing and looking at a wall in the game you will find art because it’s not real and it was created. And to top it all off, music and voice acting.

    So to me there is no doubt that games can be art. We all view art in different ways. So I’m sure that people can find some sort of art in video games, even as small as pen on paper.

    If I play the 1st created first person shooter game, I would view it as art because it has visual history. And if I look at Bioshock 1 compared to the 1st fps game, its like pen on paper, to Van Gogh’s ear.

    Would you kindly, end this post now. Art comes in all shape and forms. If something you can see and / or hear, that has a lasting impressing on you, that is art.

    Reply

    • Matthew Holliday

      July 22, 2013 at 13:47

      The fact that there is that much more to it, than simply putting pen to paper, makes it a science.
      Im still on the fence about whether games ARE art.
      Sure games can HAVE art, art elements and be artistic/creative, and you can even justify why science can be art.
      but stating that games are art is perhaps pushing it a bit, Id rather they be seen as experiences, and let the art enhance that.
      art games should be about the art, they should be designed as art experience, while RPGs and shooters should just USE art and be creative, while keeping the two separate.

      but in the end its all about perspective.

      Reply

  18. Tbone187

    July 22, 2013 at 13:09

    Do they really believe painting, sculpture and music to be 2nd rate mediums..? Wow! That’s just naive considering how they incorporate it in their movies…I’m rather disappointed in their views….And yes, gaming is a valid artform… And no, it’s not up for debate…

    Reply

    • Matthew Holliday

      July 22, 2013 at 13:47

      they do make themselves sound like dumb dumbs dont they?

      Reply

  19. Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

    July 22, 2013 at 14:02

    Lol, a bunch of old rich gits trying to tell us what’s relevant to art and what’s not. A mere 50 years ago, the same debate raged on about movies not being art. It’s funny how things go full circle, and how old farts remain the same – regardless of the decade.

    Reply

  20. Mr_Skyfish

    July 22, 2013 at 18:14

    These two morons are TROLLS! Total retards! I’m sorry but like OVG said HAVE YOU PLAYED THE LAST OF US?

    Reply

  21. iPrimal

    July 22, 2013 at 21:23

    These old guys need to play Mass Effect, or some old Final Fantasy titles. TRUE ART.

    Reply

  22. dfdfdfdfdf

    August 18, 2013 at 06:40

    really, games are not art?
    I found a kidnapped dwarf in Legends mode called Ingish Pillarspeak, who ended up being the sole defender of his adopted goblin civ, killing over two hundred dwarves, including his own mother, father, father in law (he married another kidnapped dwarf, she was killed by dwarves early in the war), brother in law (duelled him five times), several brothers, and a sister. He was at war with his original dwarven civ from the year 30 to 70, armed with a crossbow and presumably a knife. He liked to rip off the third toe of his opponents. Oh, and he ate the dwarves he killed (never his own family, at least).

    He was the victor of his final battle against his original dwarven civ, but still (somehow) lost the war. He joined the new civ and died of old age, wandering the wild.

    When I visited the now-dwarven dark fortress he’d defended for so long in Adventure mode, there was a goblin priest in the temple. Every dwarf I talked to had a relative who’d been killed by Ingish Pillarspeak.

    I imagine the war was ended when Ingish was shown his own kill list, and it was explained how many of his own family he’d slain in battle. I imagine Ingish negotiated amnesty for the goblin priest, who may have been the only other surviving member of his adopted society by then.

    Late in his life Ingish began worshipping a rampaging giant he’d seen battle his goblin kidnapper while still a prisoner. The giant passed through his life kind of like Halley’s comet, right at the begining and just before the end. The list of gods and demons he’d worshipped and the various entities he’d claimed membership in made me sad: he fought so hard for so long, and for what? His dwarveness, his goblinness, his marriage, his nation, his sense of who his family was and who he had to protect, as it all kept shifting and changing around him. He was a dwarf constantly in search of something to believe in, and his capacity for belief gave him a terrible power. If that didn’t alienate him from his fellow dwarves, I’m sure the fact he’d personally killed (and occasionally eaten) everyone’s grandparents did.

    I deleted his whole world after I realized I’d spent 40 hours researching his history in a week that I worked 50 hours, and was still accruing more detail. When I found out he’d shot and killed his youngest sister I cried. DF creates epic stories.

    Reply

  23. Taiwanese Guy

    December 15, 2013 at 03:04

    Let’s frame this correctly…. ART can never ever be GAME! FILMS can never be as great as GAME either! ART will never be as FUN as our VIDEO GAMES! FILMS certainly can never be as FUN as our VIDEO GAMES as well! ART is LAME and for PRETENTIOUS PEOPLE, who enjoying over-paid on PUKING Jackson Pollock BS CRAPS! FILMS are BORING, too, and really for OLD FARTS just like that Roger Ebert and BABY BOOMERS that needs to die already along with their Joe Lieberman [I], Jack Thompson [R], Dianne Feinstein [D], and so on Anti-Video Games CRONY Useless EATERS that DID NOTHING FOR WORLD except turning every GOOD now a day to CRAP!! >=(

    SEARCH & READ “The Art of Propaganda – YouTube”
    SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – Lying Politicians And Words”
    SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – Baby Boomers and Politicians”
    SEARCH & READ “Why Baby Boomers Suck – patmathis”

    SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – Dealing With Homelessness”
    SEARCH & READ “George Carlin – advertising and bull shit”
    SEARCH & READ “George Carlin on white people”
    SEARCH & READ “George Carlin ~ The American Dream”

    VIDEO GAMES are GAME not ART and certainly not FILM! FILMS are LAME these days with REBOOTS and REMAKES such as SUPERMAN RETURN [ ART MEDIUM > FILM MEDIUM!! >=P

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Check Also

Netflix signs massive deal with Steven Spielberg’s Amblin Partners

Netflix has landed arguably their biggest signing yet in securing Steven Spielberg's Ambli…