Home Gaming Xbox One way behind PS4 in sales

Xbox One way behind PS4 in sales

2 min read
109

Ps4 vs xbox one

The Xbox One is finally picking up in sales. It has launched in a bunch of new territories, including South Africa, and the numbers are looking up. Microsoft has triumphantly announced their sales numbers for the last period, but it’s still not looking too inspiring compared to the competition.

Microsoft hasn’t been giving us sales numbers as frequently as Sony. Remember at Gamescom when they announced that PlayStation had sold through (meaning they were in consumers’ homes and offices instead of sitting on retail shelves) 10 million PS4s. The last official number we got was back in January when Xbox said that they’d sold in 3 million units, otherwise we just have NPD figures and random estimates. At least we have some solid figures from Microsoft for the last quarter, and the regional launches have done well for them:

Microsoft said that it sold 2.4 million Xbox consoles (presumably most of which were Xbox One) as the Xbox One launched in a total of 28 new markets. All told, Devices and Consumer revenue grew 47 percent to $10.96 billion.

They went on to clarify that this was the sold in number, and they still aren’t distinguishing between Xbox One and Xbox 360 sales but only focusing on the brand’s sales all together. The fact that Microsoft won’t simply reveal the total sell in numbers makes me worry that the console is doing far worse than everyone is imagining.

Based on the rough estimates for numbers, I would hazard a guess that the Xbox One has sold about 7.5 million units. That is excellent for the first year of a new console, but it just isn’t keeping pace with the PS4. The Wii U, which everyone regards as a failure, is sitting with around 8 million units sold, but it’s clear that they will need to fight the longer battle in the console war. The PS4 was vastly preferred at launch, although with price drops and getting rid of the Kinect, the Xbox One might still come out ahead in the long run. I love my PS4, but if I were looking to buy a new console today instead of last year, it would be a much more difficult decision.

Last Updated: October 24, 2014

109 Comments

  1. Lardus-Resident Perve

    October 24, 2014 at 14:35

    Still waiting for the game that gets me to upgrade. Only then will I make my final choice

    Reply

    • Kensei Seraph - Visiting Alpha

      October 24, 2014 at 14:38

      Just glancing at the LG reviews makes me think you may have a bit of a wait until helps you make that decision.

      Reply

      • Lardus-Resident Perve

        October 24, 2014 at 14:48

        Dragon Age is the one that will make me decide…

        Reply

        • Hammersteyn

          October 24, 2014 at 14:49

          So PC then? 😛

          Reply

          • OVG

            October 24, 2014 at 14:53

            BWAHAHAHAHA,… 🙁 Might even be a 60fps/4K 1080p mod…

          • Lardus-Resident Perve

            October 24, 2014 at 14:59

            My problem with PC games these days, is when they patch on Steam, the download is quite often HUGE. I have limited cap due to wireless being all I can get. Heck, I couldn’t play Shogun for 2 years. They eventually sent me the Gold Edition on disk.

          • Hammersteyn

            October 24, 2014 at 15:00

            Well these day consoles doesn’t escape large patches either.

          • Lardus-Resident Perve

            October 24, 2014 at 15:05

            That may be true, but I have not yet had to download 12GB because they changed 1 texture entry. At least the disks still mean something to consoles 🙂

          • Hammersteyn

            October 24, 2014 at 15:20

            FYI The Halo Master chief edition has a 20GB day one download.

          • FoxOneZA

            October 24, 2014 at 15:48

            Forza 5 latest patch is about 6gbs but not all games have patches that huge like the latest FIFA 15 patch is only 150mb.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:50

            I still maintain that those HDDs that they released the consoles with were huge mistakes. They’re way too small.

          • Lynley James

            October 25, 2014 at 09:33

            At least the Wiiu and XB1 allow you to use external HDDs…

          • Pieter Kruger

            October 25, 2014 at 12:33

            Cue external HDD support…..

    • RinceThis

      October 24, 2014 at 14:46

      Go check out that Quantum trailer, looks amazing.

      Reply

    • Brady miaau

      October 24, 2014 at 14:49

      Considering buying Xbox one with DA:I

      I want Xbox for the kinect. I know, I know I am strange

      Reply

      • Guild

        October 24, 2014 at 14:50

        Huh? You want the Kinect?

        Reply

        • Brady miaau

          October 24, 2014 at 14:51

          Yes, my little girl and I will play Zoo Tycoon and Kinectimals and stuff like that.

          Reply

          • Lardus-Resident Perve

            October 24, 2014 at 14:58

            Well, can’t counter that reasoning.

          • Guild

            October 24, 2014 at 15:08

            Pretty much why I have been thinking about getting the PS4 camera. So my daughter and I can play similar type games…..need to check if PS4 has anything like that actually

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:10

            Is there anyone on lagz with children who actually has a son?

          • HvR

            October 24, 2014 at 15:10

            I have a son

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:12

            Ah. There it is. 🙂
            Was just wondering, because Admiral, Gavin, everyone has daughters.
            And I think Trevor refers to the bacteria growing on his back as his daughters also.

          • HvR

            October 24, 2014 at 15:17

            Actually tried the whole PS Eye thing with move controllers, even for a 4 year old (at that stage) the novelty wore off after a month or 2.

            Quite impressed how he handles the PS3 controller, only thing he struggles with is using both analogs for FPS games. Turned into a bit of gaming Youtube addict watching let’s play videos and lego videos.

            Now he is bugging me the last couple of months for his own gaming PC because “daar is soveel cooller games op PC”. Must doing something right.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:20

            Ah dude. Warms my heart to hear a kid say that.
            I still struggle with both analogs on FPS games (I blame the mouse – and also thank it).

          • Guild

            October 24, 2014 at 15:43

            For whatever reason my father had one of those track balls you move with your thumb. So I had no problems getting in to console FPS.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:46

            Wow. I remember those! I think my dad had one too.
            My only entertainment was my pc when I was young, pretty much, so I didn’t use his though.

          • Brady miaau

            October 24, 2014 at 15:22

            Hmm, not keen on hearing the whole novelty wears off thing.

            But we see, each person is different. I am told my daughter will be very different, cause of me

          • HvR

            October 24, 2014 at 15:27

            They are all different.

            Luckily got the Move bundled Walking with Dinosaur Wonderbook at discount price (~R400) and he enjoyed it a lot because of the dinosaurs so luckily didn’t waste to much.

            But to play all the Lego games he got proficient with the controller opening his world up to better gaming experience so the Move ended up in the corner gathering dust.

          • Brady miaau

            October 24, 2014 at 15:30

            LEGO.

            My little girl is getting duplo blocks now, then will move into Lego. We can build Space Ships! Well, I can.

          • HvR

            October 24, 2014 at 15:34

            Be careful it something that quickly becomes more expensive than gaming.

            More than once it was my wife saying no, stopping me from dropping another couple of hundred rand on another Star Wars or City set. 🙂 Kiddiewinks has seen their fair share of my salary over the last year and a half.

            When he is hitting 9 or 10 I’m definitely spending a couple of grand on a Mindstorm set.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:34

            This is the right way. LEGO for the win.
            Never too old for LEGO.

          • HvR

            October 24, 2014 at 15:39

            🙂

            There was couple of photos on the Kiddiewinks FB page of me on my backside on the floor in the middle of Willowbridge with my son building big ass spaceship.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:41

            Ah, excellent man.
            I don’t pass the LEGO store in Willowbridge without a visit.

          • Weanerdog

            October 24, 2014 at 16:02

            Wife bought me Guardians of the Galaxy lego for my Birthday.

          • Weanerdog

            October 24, 2014 at 16:00

            I got 2 sons

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 16:01

            Looks like we’re already building a future Lazygamer community.

          • Weanerdog

            October 24, 2014 at 16:21

            My building is done thank you very much, so when you going to join the dark side?

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 16:24

            Well, going to the jewellery store tomorrow actually to approve the ring before it’s made. So things are moving.

          • Weanerdog

            October 27, 2014 at 09:38

            Well much congratulations my dear sir.

          • Brady miaau

            October 24, 2014 at 15:23

            But I looked at both and the Kinect seems better tech wise

          • Pieter Kruger

            October 25, 2014 at 12:39

            Eye Toy

    • Mongoose

      October 24, 2014 at 15:26

      Me too. Neither console has games to blow me away. Still jamming my PS3 and PC. I’ll probably upgrade in a year or so when the libraries of both has filled up a bit with more AAA titles.

      Reply

    • Prince

      October 25, 2014 at 06:28

      Uncharted? quantum break?

      Reply

  2. Hammersteyn

    October 24, 2014 at 14:38

    The WIIU may be outselling the XBOX One? Oh my.

    Reply

  3. OVG

    October 24, 2014 at 14:50

    Now lets rewind to the launch of the Xbone last year.
    Imagine, no talk about TV, SPORTS, DRM, KINECT, COD and water coolers…

    Just imaging the opening was that video that we just watched from Remedy and 4 other games with type of budget. FAST FORWARD, Ill bet you all a Muffing that the Bone will be in the lead today.

    Reply

    • Captain JJ fancy eyes

      October 24, 2014 at 14:50

      It sure has the exclusives to do it.
      But bad decisions broke it.

      Reply

    • HvR

      October 24, 2014 at 14:54

      No I think the PS4 would still be in the lead due to performance hit the One takes due to the hardware mem transfer/bandwidth issues but if Phil was at the head and did launch as you described I think would have been a much closer race at this stage.

      Reply

      • OVG

        October 24, 2014 at 15:00

        Ya, 2014 will be remembered for Multi Gen games like Assassins Creed Black Flag, Tomb raider, remastered…
        and statistically the PS4 outperformed the Xbone on these 3rd party cross gen games by being able to achieve 1080p for most of them.

        Reply

        • Knowles2

          October 24, 2014 at 15:05

          An by selling in roughly double the quantities that have been selling on the Xbox one.

          Reply

        • HvR

          October 24, 2014 at 15:05

          Jip, with so few exclusive side by side performance becomes important.

          I think the true overall performance is closer than we’ve seen but the developers probably didn’t employ workarounds since it was too late in the dev cycles adding to much risk.

          Also there is the price, hard to justify for the average non-fanboy gamer to fork out $50 to $100 more for less performance for the games on the shelf.

          MS learning the same lesson Sony did in the previous gen.

          Reply

    • Knowles2

      October 24, 2014 at 15:04

      PS4 would still be in the lead because it still a more popular brand than Xbox world wide. An it initial release was in far more markets.

      Reply

      • OVG

        October 24, 2014 at 15:07

        Yip, like last gen when Microsoft snatched that 1 year install base with SHIT HOT exclusives and SONY spent 6 years playing catch up.

        Reply

        • Brian Murphy

          October 24, 2014 at 15:17

          And considering the price point it launched with, the fact that the gen ended the way it did, should tell you something OvG. Microsoft’s only hope was to take the US and UK overwhelmingly (like last gen). We know how that’s turned out (so far).

          No matter how you look at it, Sony’s brand recognition for gaming in Europe and ROW regions, far exceeds that of Microsoft. The sales of FIFA 15 should be some indicator of that, especially given Microsoft’s deal with EA on that title.

          Reply

          • OVG

            October 24, 2014 at 15:25

            They lost my sale when the word MANDATORY was used for the Kinect 2.

            Also, after bragging about 77million 360s sold with 47million being on LIVE. 42 million being American subscriptions, they were more than happy screwing the other half of off-line gamers by announcing 24hour DRM.

            Anyway, I got to play TLOU remastered this year, so Im happy 🙂

          • Brian Murphy

            October 24, 2014 at 15:29

            They lost allot of people with that, plus the consumer reaction to the original launches of both, spread via word of mouth pretty fast. Microsoft is attempting to turn things around, and they’ll probably move some hardware w/ MCC. But, like last gen, people are going to buy where their friends are, and as the PS4’s weekly sales continue to dwarf all competition (but the 3ds), that word of mouth is only working in Sony’s favor, at present.

          • OVG

            October 24, 2014 at 15:37

            The cycle continues 🙂

          • Brian Murphy

            October 24, 2014 at 15:38

            I’m still absolutely floored that Microsoft has literally made the exact same mistakes as Sony did last gen, and just to give themselves a harder time, they introduced some truly anti-gamer policies (yes, they’ve been reversed…unless you live in China). I don’t understand how they could _possibly_ have not seen this coming.

          • OVG

            October 24, 2014 at 15:40

            Give it 40years when everybody will have been born in the gaming age. These CEOs and Baby Boomer Marketing teams will actually be replaced by gamers.
            This hobby is still very young.

            Looking forward to Cliffy B being the president 😛

          • Brian Murphy

            October 24, 2014 at 15:41

            Honestly, I hope in 40 years that I’m plugging into the net with a cord directly into my skull. Fuck this handheld or stand alone hardware BS! 🙂

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:42

          • OVG

            October 24, 2014 at 15:43

            I hope I am around when the adult gamers start creating adult entertainment, like full on holographic naked elf queens greeting me at the door 😉

          • Brian Murphy

            October 24, 2014 at 15:43

            Holodeck action, baby!

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:48

            Of course you do. ;P
            I just want to go crazy running around Tamriel.

          • OVG

            October 24, 2014 at 15:51

            I think what the world really need right now considering there were 3billion less humans on this planet when I was born, is holographic sex.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:56

            I think some countries are more in need of it than others too.
            I can’t watch the video, but this whole idea makes me think of Demolition Man.
            If they can get it to stimulate all the right parts of the brain we’re going to have a whole bunch of single people in the future.

          • HvR

            October 24, 2014 at 15:43

            Only problem would that you will standing there for 2 hours unable to go to the toilet because of a stupid day one patch being downloaded.

          • Brian Murphy

            October 24, 2014 at 15:44

            You’re kidding right? In 40 years the transfer speeds will vastly exceed anything we know now. And the amount of data transfer needed for a neural implant that could actually produce images via the optic nerve would be staggering.

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:42

            No no no no. How could you do that? Just now Cliffy takes it seriously.
            Vote GabeN.

          • Brian Murphy

            October 24, 2014 at 18:31

            At this point, pretty much everyone has except for the 40+ year old’s, though. I’m 35, and I grew up in the gaming age (sure, it may have been the early age, but the console market was already popping up, the PC market was beginning et al.

            Not sure about you, but I’ve been into this hobby for about 30 years now (even in elementary school ~5-7 yrs old, the computer rooms had number crunchers…loved that effin game).

        • Knowles2

          October 24, 2014 at 15:36

          An did catch up and was even on course to overtake Xbox 360 in sales, not sure if it did, Haven’t check the numbers for a while.

          Reply

          • harlemsfinest027

            October 24, 2014 at 15:48

            With exception of the U.S., PS3 eventually outsold the 360. Pretty sad considering Microsoft had a one year head start and STILL got outsold.

    • Sir Rants A Lot Llew

      October 24, 2014 at 15:11

      Stop talking logical sense!

      Reply

      • Captain JJ fancy eyes

        October 24, 2014 at 15:12

        It’s probably because he’s drinking.

        Reply

        • Sir Rants A Lot Llew

          October 24, 2014 at 15:16

          or maybe stopped for a change?

          Reply

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:17

            Let’s keep it serious Sir Rants 😉

          • Sir Rants A Lot Llew

            October 24, 2014 at 15:20

            Sorry 🙁

  4. ToshZA

    October 24, 2014 at 14:57

    My biggest debate is Xbone or GTX970. Difficult choice? Nope. Same price, way more pretty.

    Reply

  5. Ryanza

    October 24, 2014 at 15:00

    LOL. Before the consoles were released I said it was going to be like this. And it’s not going to stop. The way the Xbox One is set up now with the games. Xbox One ain’t going to sell.

    There is a way to get the world to support a video game console. Price. Performance. Single player games that’s not first person shooters and No internet as your common denominator.

    Xbox One needs internet before it can play games. Games need internet on launch day to complete the games. Games on offer are mostly internet games. So yeah. Fail Microsoft. When Microsoft said console DRM the gaming community said that an example will be made. So well done Microsoft. What ever you get you should be pleased with.

    Reply

  6. Jester

    October 24, 2014 at 15:00

    Update: Microsoft has clarified its announcement to
    indicate the 2.4 million unit refers to consoles sold-in (shipped to
    retailers), not sold through (purchased by consumers).

    It just gets worse.

    Reply

  7. Knowles2

    October 24, 2014 at 15:02

    Kinect and prices drop will keep Microsoft competitive, nothing short of Sony going bankrupt and PS4 stopping production would enable Microsoft to win the console war right now, a draw is the best Microsoft can hope for and even that is unlikely not making their numbers look completely embarrassing compare PS4 sales is a more likely prospect.

    Reply

  8. Sir Rants A Lot Llew

    October 24, 2014 at 15:04

    staggered region release, terrible PR, less powerful hardware. Consistent failure to achieve performance that was promised. Not surprised the XBox One is doing so bad

    Reply

  9. Captain JJ fancy eyes

    October 24, 2014 at 15:09

    I’m sure Civ Beyond Earth is a real seller on both though. trolololo

    Reply

    • Brady miaau

      October 24, 2014 at 15:21

      Yeah, I must admit to playing Civ on my laptop and almost all other games on the xbox. But Civ on Xbox? Eech

      Reply

      • Captain JJ fancy eyes

        October 24, 2014 at 15:23

        When they said that the Steam controller would make playing strategy games a breeze I could only frown. Firstly, you can’t sit on a couch and play a strategy game because you won’t be able to see anything. Secondly, mouse for strategy, period.
        Whichever way it is though, one cannot simply go without Civ or some good turn-based action.

        Reply

        • Brady miaau

          October 24, 2014 at 15:25

          I have played Civ V on the big tv and it sucks massively. not easy to play, yet Knights of the Old Repblic was kinda fun on the big tv, HDMI cable to laptop

          Reply

          • Captain JJ fancy eyes

            October 24, 2014 at 15:26

            KotoR I can actually see working like that.
            I tried Starcraft II on my TV, was quite the struggle.

          • Brady miaau

            October 24, 2014 at 15:28

            Ok, ok, now that was funny!

  10. Brian Murphy

    October 24, 2014 at 15:18

    Actually, not even close (Even VGChartz doesn’t overtrack the One that much). NPD, GFK, and other official charts put the Xbox One at just below 6 million units sold to consumers. With the PS4 around the ~12m unit mark.

    Reply

  11. L337J1MB0B

    October 24, 2014 at 15:33

    Unfortunately the X1 is always going to carry the stigma of being the “under-powered” console. We live in times when faster and more powerful wins every time.. each time a new smartphone drops we all rush to check out the spec sheet. MS should have identified that performance is paramount these days. For that reason alone the X1 will never surpass the PS4 in sales.

    Reply

    • Luke Barber

      October 24, 2014 at 15:47

      Not everyone runs out to buy a new phone every 6 months. The X1 and PS4 where always meant to be different. For me what matters isn’t just resolution and frame rate, it’s what sets them apart the most. I want consoles that have unique features, the PS4 is the Social console and the X1 is the multiplayer console. This first year has been phenomenal for new console launches and I look forward to Sony and Microsoft pushing each other to be better, whether through firmware updates or exclusive content.

      Reply

    • Brian Murphy

      October 24, 2014 at 15:48

      Well, they openly admitted that they weren’t targetting the high-end side of things with the XB1. They wanted to do what Sony did last gen…the all in one console, however, it’s staggering to think that they didn’t notice how much confusion that sowed in the early years of the PS3 (yes there were other factors, but consumer confusion over what the PS3 was, did effect things).

      Reply

      • L337J1MB0B

        October 24, 2014 at 15:54

        Sony had the luxury of a stronger, more global brand in Playstation to carry them through those early troubled years of PS3. Xbox doesn’t quite have that. I’m sure Xbox will be fine, for now, but I really don’t see it ever catching up in this generation. It’s made worse by the fact that MS doesn’t have a strong group of 1st party studios to deliver exclusive content.

        Reply

  12. Luke Barber

    October 24, 2014 at 15:35

    Sales mean nothing, just look how the PS3 came from behind last gen. All it will take for the Xbox One to start gaining momentum is good quality exclusive games, but new IPs should be a focus and not relying on established franchises.

    Reply

  13. Ricardo Harvey

    October 24, 2014 at 15:52

    I wonder what the local sales figures are looking like. Until microsoft stops segmenting its audience and treating everyone outside the US like sh1t they they will struggle to sell.

    “Hey South Africa, tell you what, im going to give you xbox one 10 months later than the rest of the world…oh and we not going to give you all the cool GOLD features that the US gets even though you pay for it. And if you thinking of lying about your location we now check IP’s”

    Reply

    • OVG

      October 24, 2014 at 15:56

      and a free copy of Titan Fall 😛

      Reply

    • Ryanza

      October 25, 2014 at 11:14

      PS 4 has sold about over 40000 units in South Africa since launch last year.

      So Xbox One should have only sold 10 units by now in South Africa.

      Reply

  14. Didier Danloy

    October 24, 2014 at 17:23

    Xbox One is selling far faster than the Xbox 360 at launch time. I have the Xbox One since day one and I’m very happy that I can play games but also use it to watch movies / TV show with Plex or watch my own pictures using OneDrive. The Xbox One has the games I like because I like car games and so far PS4 has nothing interesting in this category. When choosing the console you should compare what games you like are available on each console and which multimedia features you will get.

    Reply

  15. Pieter Kruger

    October 25, 2014 at 12:32

    Ag shame, Toyota is outselling Merc, Toyota is still kak compared to Merc though and MS is still making more money that Sony could ever dream of. Please stop hoping for Xbox One to fail, NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!

    Reply

    • Ryanza

      October 25, 2014 at 16:09

      Oh this blind devotion of yours.

      Let me explain why the Xbox One is selling so poorly compared to the PS4. It comes down to internet. Why Microsoft said DRM, I knew they going to fail. When Microsoft said that the Xbox One needs to connected to the internet first before it will play games, I knew it was going to fail. PS4 doesn’t need internet in order to play games.

      So lets look at the internet stats. Xbox 360 has about 83 million consoles sold. Xbox Live (internet) has about 48 million users. Can you see millions of people who did not use internet with their Xbox 360.

      There are about 7 billion people on this planet. There are about 360 million internet users. Can you see the difference in numbers. Microsoft can only target 360 million people. Sony can target 7 billion people.

      Can you see the difference between the amount of people in this world and the amount of internet users. That is why I am so against online DRM.

      And PS4 is more like a Golf GTi and Xbox One more like a Golf 1.6.

      Reply

  16. Bogle

    October 27, 2014 at 18:57

    You’d hazard a guess at 7.5 million?? Well…since vgchartz is widely regarded as being a premier source for such information to nearly every existing publication and game reviewer out there, and since they’ve never even been 200,000 off, I’d say you’re guess is wrong to an epic scale (and would actually have put them above the Wii U which they are not close to). You said you fear it’s doing much worse than anyone knows…well yes…more than you think above all ;). VGchartz currently have them at 6.1 million. At this point sales for the X3 will go down with the expiration of the free game offer. And then of course all console sales will go up for Christmas. The x3 is in an unequivocal third place and pulling in second will be a struggle for them, though I suspect they will manage it sometime next year. Attempting to compete with the P4 who have now doubled their sales…well that’s just not going to happen. Removing the kinnect made little difference other than price. P4 still has the muscle and can have it with the PSEye running full throttle. Sony exclusives and the free games of playstation plus (the best deal in the history of gaming) coupled with the fact Microsoft always always do everything wrong will keep Sony ahead of MS for the third time. Last time it was close as MS had a 16 month lead and the systems each had graphical advantages over the other. That’s just not the same. This will be more like PS2 vs xbox….only xbox was at least stronger. In short, no…the best days for xbox were with the 360 and even then they pulled in last (although so close to P3 it may as well be a tie). Bungie don’t make Halo anymore and Microsoft are pricks who are terrible to their own supporters. It’s all downhill from here.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Check Also

Xbox Series X Restock Update Today: Track on Twitter, Walmart, Best Buy and More

New consoles are on the horizon, and while Sony and Microsoft have spoken plenty about wha…