Tensions between the two companies that provide the graphics processing hardware that powers just about everything, Nvidia and AMD, have been heating up of late. Much of that stems from Nvidia’s Gameworks, which adds shiny effects to a number of games. AMD feels that it leads to games being unoptimised for AMD hardware, and excludes its customers from getting the best experiences possible.
It started when AMD’s Robert Hallock said that “Gameworks represents a clear and present threat to gamers by deliberately crippling performance on AMD products (40 per cent of the market) to widen the margin in favour of Nvidia products.”
Speaking to Kotaku as part of feature on the reason for the current GPU war, an unnamed Nvidia rep pulled no punches.
“If AMD spent as much time working on their drivers and actually making investments in gaming than they did talking about us, then maybe their customers would not be stuck with sub-par gaming experiences in today’s cutting-edge titles."
This comes after AMD’s announcement that some games, like Dragon Age: Inquisitions, Star Citizen and Battlefield: Hardline will be optimised for AMD hardware. What does Nvidia have to say about that?
They assert that because Gameworks is such a far-reaching program, “it would be impossible for us to maintain a current list”
Ouch. It’s all honestly getting a bit childish, isn’t it? Isn’t the master race supposed to leave this sort of bickering for those console peasants?
Last Updated: June 26, 2014
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:04
Eish. This quite something. I’m actually just in the process of possibly switching from Nvidia to AMD. Now I don’t know.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
June 26, 2014 at 14:15
Nvidia has the better tech (and drivers!), AMD is cheaper. Choice depends on budget.
Admiral Chief Cyber Commando
June 26, 2014 at 14:15
Better drivers? Ag nee moer Geoff, pull the other one
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
June 26, 2014 at 14:16
AMD’s drivers are fucking /pathetic/. Always have been, and the way it looks, always will be. I hate Catalyst with all of my everything. PS. I’m currently running AMD on my desktop. If i could afford it, I’d go with a fancy new Nvidia card.
Admiral Chief Cyber Commando
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
Out of the last 30 times I installed AMD drives (rough figure, can be more), I had NOT.ONE.ISSUE.
Nvidia on the other hand, gemors. And there is a much wider field there since we run quite a few different pieces of tech at the office. So my experience is based on first had encounters
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:20
Did you remember to swap the AMD card out before installing the NVIDIA drivers?
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:20
lol
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:20
lol!
Admiral Chief Cyber Commando
June 26, 2014 at 14:24
Fokkit Deon, don’t be daft man
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:24
XD
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:37
hahahahah
VampyreSquirrel
June 26, 2014 at 14:24
The amount of times I’ve installed Nvidia drivers to only revert back to the previous ones because of BSOD’s and the like isn’t even funny anymore… haven’t really had issues with AMD drivers in the last 2 years.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:25
That’s exactly what I’m sitting with.
ALL
THE
DAMN
TIME
CypherGate
June 26, 2014 at 17:19
I never had any driver issues with either gpu brand. I still at times find it odd how such a lot of people have driver issues with their gpu’s.
Spartaxus
June 27, 2014 at 09:03
Agreed, @Vamp, try not using their Beta drivers. Might help. Also sometimes it has nothing to do with the GPU or its driver, it might be system compatibility somewhere else. especially if you build your own gaming rig.
And seriously, AMD releases updates half as often as NVidia because NVidia is trying new sh!t all the time, to make our experience better.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:16
Women say they’re better drivers too.
Admiral Chief Cyber Commando
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
And there you have it folks, simple and awesome answer
Lord Chaos
June 26, 2014 at 14:18
Winner
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:19
Haha.
Brady miaau
June 26, 2014 at 14:20
Um, accident stats would suggest that to be true
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:22
I think, in all fairness, that’s because women don’t lose it when someone stops next to them at traffic lights and revs their engine.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:22
Don’t be that guy 🙁
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:24
Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:25
You know the joke about the people stuck in the canyon and the statistician?
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:25
No?
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:28
(I’m terrible at telling jokes, so bear with me)
So these people are stuck in a canyon and they yell out:
“Is anyone there?”
They get a reply: “Hello”
They ask: “Where are we?”
The voice replies: “You’re lost”
So the one person says to the other, “Well, he must be a statistician because he’s 100% right, but it doesn’t really help us in any way at all.”
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:29
bwhahahaha
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:32
LOL
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:27
I base my opinion on years of grocery shopping in Woolies & PnP & watching how people push trolleys & stop in the middle of aisles.
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:53
They do that everywhere. Because no matter what you say, the majority of human beings are fucking retards.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:20
Yes. But you try to update them regularly and that’s where the trouble comes in.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:33
They need to know when they’re wrong. I’m trying to help. O_o
Thats_how_I_Troll
June 26, 2014 at 14:58
Well slower is suppose to be safer 😉
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:19
The reason I want to leave Nvidia is because the drivers are so kak. Honestly. If I have to have one more problem with the “GForce Experience” or a game crashing, telling me my drivers need updating, I’m going to shit myself.
Rags
June 26, 2014 at 14:27
I’ve never had a serious issue. Only with GF Experience not connecting the the server, but a reinstall solved that. Come to think of it never had an issue with my ATI(back then) systems either.
But I like the Nvidia driver features. No need for fraps any more, and the game optimize profiles are pretty sweet. Even a console potato brain can configure their settings in an instant.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:31
Haha. That is true.
I’ve only had Nvidia, but the last three I’ve had have been making me lean towards ATi
Still in two minds about it though.
Lord Chaos
June 26, 2014 at 14:31
Come to the dark side.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:33
O_o
You’re making it harder.
I have a tab open on my browser right now with a graphics card I’m considering. It’s AMD.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:49
HWCompare.com
Best site ever.
Rags
June 26, 2014 at 15:31
Made by Saffas too :>
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 15:32
Really? Then why dont they add Kalahari or Takealot links? Why only Amazon?
Rags
June 26, 2014 at 15:43
Dunno, think most of their readers are mostly international.
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:54
R9290 or X.Either way you will not be disappointed.Unless you don’t like Mass Effect,Dragon Age and Mirrors Edge. Also BF but that is an afterthought.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:59
I don’t like Dragon Age or Mirror’s Edge. Haven’t played Mass Effect yet. :/
The R9290 is a bit pricey for me though and I don’t have children to sell.
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 15:01
NOT PLAYED MASS EFFECT!
Nearly had a heart attack.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:02
I know.
I’ve already killed three people this year alone by telling them that.
Worst of all. I actually have ME 1
Spathi
June 26, 2014 at 15:03
Well, according to me, if you plan on gaming in 1920 x 1080 the 280x is the best value for money by far. 290 is nicer, but damn it gets expensive!
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:03
Yes. I can’t do too expensive at this stage.
Spathi
June 26, 2014 at 15:05
Check Carbonite. Loads of miners selling of their 280x cards for around R 3000. I’m contemplating getting one myself, but the Foo Fighter tickets screwed that up nicely 🙂 If you want to buy one new, go with wootware, they have the cards for something like R 3700 + 3 free games.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:08
Luckily I’m not too much of a Foo Fighters fan. Not enough to warrant buying a ticket. But the Steam Sale is hurting me.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:44
I read: Girlfriend experience.
geelslang
June 26, 2014 at 14:28
Seriously, my games almost never crash, cant even remember the last time I had a game crash. Am I just lucky?
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:31
Well, I have a sadistic kind of luck. I run Skyrim with 50 mods and it has never ever ever crashed. But with my newest Nvidia card I’ve opened a movie and see the driver crash.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:43
Same here. And driver updates come like once every two months.
geelslang
June 26, 2014 at 14:34
What Geoffery said. If you can afford it, go Intel + Nvidia. Simple as that.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:35
I’ll be honest. I love my Intel. Runs like an absolute dream never had a second’s worth of trouble.
FoxOneZA
June 26, 2014 at 14:48
Indeed but the 750ti and the R9 270 are basically the same price with the AMD card being more powerful than the GPU in the PS4.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:51
My etch-n-sketch has a more powerful GPU than the PS4. ;D
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:59
What do you think of the R9 270?
FoxOneZA
June 26, 2014 at 15:02
Brilliant card for a brilliant price. I’m 90% there to getting one but my Gainward GS 550Ti is still doing 1080p with medium-high settings and SMAA *shrugs*
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:03
I’m running a 650Ti, but the drivers keep crashing my games. So looking at the R9 270.
FoxOneZA
June 26, 2014 at 15:06
Tried a clean driver install? I mean like running DriverSweeper after uninstall?
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:07
I’ve formatted my PC out of desperation. Used DriverSweeper.
Tried just about every software combination I can this side of running iOS.
FoxOneZA
June 26, 2014 at 15:16
iOS lol.
What PSU you running? Sounds like your card is on it’s way out. Reminds me of my old XFX 9600GT that used to reboot midway during games.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:20
I’ve also been wondering if it isn’t the card just going. Running a Coolermaster Extreme Power II 700W or something in that line. The PSU is bulletproof.
Biggest problem comes in when I restart my pc. Whenever I restart or switch my pc on and off again, the drivers keep failing or crashing. Leave the pc on for a day and the card is 100%.
Strange indeed.
Spathi
June 26, 2014 at 15:01
Nope. The R9 270 is a rebranded 7850. PS4 has 7870 equivalent about. So maybe the same, but not more powerful.
FoxOneZA
June 26, 2014 at 15:05
2 x Shader were models removed = 7850.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:48
I actually had trouble with my Intel. But that is because silly me didn’t even realise that I OC’d it. When did overclocking become so easy?!
Eric
June 26, 2014 at 14:43
How does that translate to the new gen consoles though? They both run on AMD
Skyblue
June 27, 2014 at 08:16
AMD build quality and reliability is far better than nVidia. I gave up on nVidia after 2 660ti’s lasted less than 6 months.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:41
I really love the Geforce experience. I want to change to AMD bacause money, but I want to stay because reasons. And the fact that for some odd reason I’m loyal to Nvidia.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:57
I also feel some loyalty to Nvidia, mainly because I’ve had it forever. But for me the GeForce Experience has only been a headache, since it makes me go back to older drivers when the newer ones don’t work and then tell me I must update because my driver is old.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 15:02
Have you tried uninstalling the driver and installing a new one from scratch as opposed to just updating it?
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:08
Well no because the master race has options. Nivdia or AMD whereas the peasants are stuck with AMD for this generation.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:09
Wow, that sounds much nicer than the way I said it 😀
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:14
You would say that XD
Lord Chaos
June 26, 2014 at 14:10
I would replace “stuck ” with “blessed” 😛
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:14
Good point.
Admiral Chief Cyber Commando
June 26, 2014 at 14:15
Finally, something I can agree to about consoles
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:08
No. Because the beggars don’t get to be choosers & we’re fighting about choices. ;P
This. Is. HARDWAREEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 15:14
It’ll have to be as you seem to have very little exclusive software *RUNS
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 15:15
Very little but then again our exclusives are AWESOME. #Star Citizen #DayZ
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 15:16
Damn well better be! The time you wait for each 😛
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:17
If you’d said “games” instead of “software” you could have earned a mild zing instead of a pitying smirk ;P
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 15:19
Pah, I know what I meant, as does Kromas. I too have a laptop that has lots of software 😛
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 15:20
Yeah but can your PS run Linux?
Oh wait anything can run Linux with a bit of “tweaking”. Hell I am currently converting my old scientific calculator to run debian.
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 15:21
PS?
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 15:21
the chocolate … or maybe the console. Either way … I am sure you can get Linux to work on both. 😛
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 15:22
I said LAPTOP 😛
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 15:23
I know but I was getting back to the console topic. Aka you previous post. 😛
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:22
lol @ choc
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 15:23
Imagine a KitKat running Android KitKat but still tastes awesome.
Weanerdog
June 26, 2014 at 16:29
He has a xbox 360 not a PS
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:20
Only thing in your lap-top is tons of viruses 😉
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 15:20
Only cus I click your links you non MALEware person!
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:12
From what I’ve read part of the problem is Nvidia relies on proprietary features, while AMD tends to go with open standards.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:12
You’re an open standard!!
Admiral Chief Cyber Commando
June 26, 2014 at 14:14
Shush you!
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
AND PROUD. GO RED TEAM!
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
Purple!!
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:18
Trees!!!!!
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
Rinces team?
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:18
Ag nee sies.
Willem Van Wyk
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
Your mom is an open standard 😛
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 14:28
http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130424095913/glee/images/3/3f/Ooooooooo_ooh_oooh_cat_shrek.gif
Hammersteyn
June 26, 2014 at 14:31
http://d3dsacqprgcsqh.cloudfront.net/photo/a9dgoeZ_460sa_v1.gif
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:32
Nice.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:34
Still not as bad as Trevor though 🙂
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:42
I don’t know, your mom is pretty bad… if you know what I mean *nudge nudge*
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:44
No, we don’t know what you mean.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:46
Too bad 😛
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:06
Haha. Touché
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:38
hahaha!
AceZero911
June 26, 2014 at 14:12
I thought Mantle was supposed to be AMD’s next big thing.
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:17
LULZ
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 14:22
Want some?
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:24
Not at all.
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:38
Only kidding! Hand over the coke as well!
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 15:11
While we are at it lets piss off the rest of the world
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:32
So PC Masterbaters are made up of PC mAMDerbaters and PC Nvidiabaters? Which is better? 0_O
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 14:33
Ek slat dit old skool
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:38
So you’re using a Voodoo 2 card then?
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:43
I remember my first Voodoo, it was a rush 😉
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 14:51
Actually the only working card in my house is a Voodoo Banshee. 16 years and still ticking.
After that Nvidia, broke, ATi, broke, Nvidia, broke, AMD, broke took the MB with it.
(That is excluding integrated GPUs in laptops)
R1ker
June 26, 2014 at 14:54
Damn – had a banshee as well. PCI card – pc at the time did not have AGP
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:06
I remember my Voodoo 2. Loved that card so much.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
June 26, 2014 at 15:08
Darryn is rocking an S3 Trio.
Spathi
June 26, 2014 at 15:15
Was my first “3D Accelerrator Wow tjek daai lense flare grafics (sic)” card. It sucked fucking balls!
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
June 26, 2014 at 15:16
Fuck, that thing sucked. Back when I was a computer techie IN THE BEFORE TIMES, I had a box full of those things..for some bloody reason.
Norm
June 27, 2014 at 08:24
Voodoo 2 was my first GFX card XD
Sith JJ
June 27, 2014 at 08:29
Mine too. Loved that card so much.
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:39
Bra ek rol nog met n TnT2.
R1ker
June 26, 2014 at 14:39
Lol – maar hulle is actually nou Nvidia 🙂
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 14:48
Like Westwood is now EA
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:07
And EA is now KAK
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:33
Depends who you ask, however both sides will make peace to laugh at the peasants.
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:35
😉
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 14:37
I am better!
That’s who.
I only have CPU issues when you pour water (or booze) over me, and so far I haven’t crashed in years.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:39
…
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:42
Not when the answer is!
HvR - Still dislikes Random.or
June 26, 2014 at 14:49
LOL
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:57
Yes. Yes you can. lol.
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:40
So, while us console peasants are arguing over which exclusive to console game looks better on a PS4 or Xbox One, THIS is what you chaps have left to argue over?
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:45
Well we can’t join you guys on debates as far reaching as FPS and resolution cause that would be like talking about WW2 as if it was current events. 😛
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:46
But my AMD is bigger than yours man! And it can run Crysis 17!
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:48
The new question is actually. “Can it run Metro in ultra mode” 😛
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:49
It can on Youtube!
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:50
Yeah … I need proof. 😛
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:50
So give me the intel, what about the INTEL?
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:49
hahahah! Metro: Last Suavez Bite? Or the first? 🙂
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:47
We don’t have to worry about a game being exclusive to a specific brand.
And even when there are graphical differences those differences get fixed after a few months either through a driver update or a mod.
Like with Dark Souls. 😀
Rince&Shitity
June 26, 2014 at 14:48
You mean when people could use the Xbox One controller? 🙂 trololo
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:53
Well there’s the DSFix for the graphics, DSCFix for the multiplayer and then the DSMFix for the mouse.
b1nd3r
June 26, 2014 at 14:42
This is what the master race is about!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MY GRAPHICS IS BEST BRO!!!!!!!!! BEST IN EUROPE!!!!!!
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:45
My gpu is bigger than yours.
b1nd3r
June 26, 2014 at 14:46
Mines more monies boet!!!
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:51
Joh bru, mine has a ceiling fan and optional sunroof.
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:52
But can it make coffee?
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:53
Couldn’t afford the espresso deluxe edition. Maybe next time!
b1nd3r
June 26, 2014 at 14:53
1 word—–Hydrolics >.< bzzzzzzzpsssshwl bzzz pow!!!!
Mossel
June 26, 2014 at 14:59
Ah man, I got nothing. You win this time.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:00
Don’t quit. When all else fails you can go grammar nazi. Hydraulics. 😀
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:01
You pulling an Admiral?
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:01
When you’re an Emperor everyone follows along in your wake.
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 15:02
You know what they say about Emperors.
A great Emperor is one who surrounds himself with even greater people.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:05
Not many people usually want to stand too close to Trevor.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:07
Good.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:07
That sounds unsanitary :/
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 15:08
Well I don’t know how your species interact but here on Earth it’s generally safe.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:47
First check to see if he has an Xbone before saying that.
b1nd3r
June 26, 2014 at 14:51
SHHHHHHH not so loud, I dont want those filthy console peasants to hear >.<
Kensei Seraph
June 26, 2014 at 14:46
My console has the better hardware.
Yeah, well mine has an amazing camera.
Mine has ….
Console peasants are even worse.
Sith JJ
June 26, 2014 at 15:01
Have a girlfriend.
Don’t care. 😉
Norm
June 27, 2014 at 08:22
^Winning
Sir Rants A Lot Llew. Jelly!!!
June 26, 2014 at 14:45
Wait… So gameworks is gimping the market because it doesn’t allow AMD cards to perform as well but doing something like AMD mantle is perfectly ok even though it can’t be run on nVidia tech?
Because in theory any game that runs mantle and is thus optimised for AMD will run better on AMD than nVidia.
So why can’t nVidia have their own tech which makes optimised games for themselves possible?
Seriously? They are actually arguing about this practice which has been the sole reason gaming is constantly evolving in the marketplace with the one trying to out do the other graphics wise and performance wise all the time?
Really? Grow up both of you. Sheesh. Makes me ashamed to be a PC gamer
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:47
Mantle can and already does run on Nvidia tech… they just don’t wanna use it.Hell they built a mantle machine running an Intel GPU. Open Source FTW!. Also Mantle has no clause stating that if you use our stuff you have to prioritize our cards in it unlike NoVidia. It is the reason why I switched initially.
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 14:48
Eggzachary.
Kromas
June 26, 2014 at 14:49
Also Mantle is open source and gameworks is not.
Sir Rants A Lot Llew. Jelly!!!
June 26, 2014 at 15:05
ok ok. You win this one
Consumer of Little Rabbits
June 26, 2014 at 15:11
HA #teamgreen
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
June 26, 2014 at 15:11
GOOD MAN
Alien Emperor Trevor
June 26, 2014 at 15:23
Your position is undercut by your red icon & non-vegetarian connotations. 😉
Consumer of Little Rabbits
June 26, 2014 at 15:53
tomatoes gonna tomate
Greylingad
June 26, 2014 at 15:24
This sounds like two kids on a playfield complaining to a teacher…
Kid 1: But maám, he kicked me in the ballz…
Kid 2: I only kicked you in the Ballz because you stole my mantle sammich
Kid 1: I took your mantle sammich because you’re complaining about my gameworks bun
Kid 2: I’m complaining about your gameworks bun because it makes you look better on a fat kids machine
Spathi
June 26, 2014 at 15:25
Loving this!
Rags
June 26, 2014 at 15:53
Either way they run 1080 at 60fps 😛
xxxxKxxxx
June 26, 2014 at 16:08
Why AMD (although they are not exactly saints themselves) is absolutely right about NVIDIA:
What nvidia is trying to do is get the software developers to use proprietary code, which is not accesible by competitors AMD and INTEL, that is meant to work with DX11 API. So far so good.
Where they are wrong and AMD is absolutely right, is that they managed to put the competition in a situation where they are forced to compete for DX11 superiority but with the open access nature of DX11 API practically taken out of the equation. This turns what should have been a competition about GPU hardware and drivers into competition about developer influence.
NVIDIA stated very clearly that although they may provide a source code license to developers that pay for it, that licence is for them only. This practically means that they cannot work together with AMD for optimisations because they are not allowed to share NVIDIA intellectual property. And, importantly, all this happens under the blanket of DX11 which is meant to be (and is perceived as being) GPU-vendor agnostic.
That access to source code allows for far more efficient optimisation has been confirmed by all the software developers that have been asked. In fact, not even NVIDIA denied this. What they said was that it is not absolutely necessary to have access to the source code in order to do optimisations, which is true. What they didn’t say was that having access to source code allows for orders of magnitude better optimisations than not having access.
It would have been fair if NVIDIA let the developers write and optimise the games the way they usually do but paid them to put a GW add-on that would turn on some eye candy for users that have NVIDIA hardware. Which is more or less how PhysX works, you can turn it on and off at will.
Instead, they pay them to incorporate GW deep into their game engine and in practice turning a DX11 into “NV-Mantle” that just happens to be compatible with other hardware.
Although, it may not seem that there is anything foundamentaly wrong with any of the individual actions that NVIDIA took, looking at the end result those actions produced it most certainly looks like unfair competition. NVIDIA should show their superiority by paying the developers to use their features as separate add-ons (or make their own “Mantle”) not by paying developers to alter the nature of DX.
Brian Murphy
June 26, 2014 at 16:09
” Isn’t the master race supposed to leave this sort of bickering for those console peasants?”
Um, it’s an industry exec speaking to a reporter. You’re now going to suggest PR sparring is the realm of the PC Gamer as well? Damn, we become more and more powerful everyday.
HisDivineOrder
June 26, 2014 at 16:20
“This comes after AMD’s announcement that some games, like Dragon Age: Inquisitions, Star Citizen and Battlefield: Hardline will be optimised for AMD hardware. What does Nvidia have to say about that?”
I believe they mean, “investments” in their drivers. That is, nVidia long ago (back in the day for Civ V) implemented in drivers support for multithreaded CPU’s. AMD didn’t. In fact, AMD steadfastly refused to do so even while trumpeting they had support for 11.2, of which the .1 and .2 updates did little for gaming at all. Whereas SOME of the much ballyhooed performance advantages from Mantle would have been also derived on DirectX 11 drivers if they had just implemented multithreaded drivers, which they have thus far refused to do after YEARS of nVidia having done it.
You’d think a company that built a CPU built around “more cores, less performance per core” would be more intent upon making sure those threads were being used to maximum benefit, but alas it isn’t the case.
AMD drivers may not CRASH like they once did, but that doesn’t mean you see AMD working nearly as hard on DirectX (or especially Linux drivers) as they are Mantle, which seems very misguided when their DirectX and Linux drivers are missing critical features that could greatly reduce the divide in performance with Mantle’s supposed advantages. But AMD has no reason to want that. They want Mantle to seem like an advantage and they’re going to prop that up as long as possible.
Look at nVidia’s Shader Cache and its effect in really bridging the supposed divide between what DirectX drivers can do and what Mantle can do to see just how little reason AMD has to improve their DirectX drivers.
Look at Mantle as an advantage for AMD, but not one for users. If successful, AMD could reduce emphasis on their driver teams for higher level access (which they have to smooth out the edges for) and let developers/publishers do the heavy lifting on improving compatibility for games using low level access. This could mean in the long term they can keep reducing their driver teams as they already have in the past. It would also give them games tailor built to GCN instead of built to run across multiple GPU’s, which could lead to gains in performance just from tailor-made games. Best case scenario for AMD, you see games that skip other API’s entirely and go solely Mantle, which removes other cards from the running altogether.
in no way is that an advantage to the user as it all ultimately reduces choice if AMD cards become the only place to enjoy ALL games.
Say what you like about Gameworks, but it does not take games away from AMD. It may make the games not run as well on AMD hardware, but it does not in any way try to remove those games from being played on AMD hardware.
And there’s nothing forcing developers to use AMD’s Gameworks libraries. If they are using them, then there must be a reason, right? Certainly, no publisher is going to take a payoff (ie., EA, Square-Enix for AMD, Ubisoft for nVidia) to lose about half the discrete GPU’s out there in sales. So really with Gameworks, we’re talking about performance not being optimal.
So on the one hand you have AMD arguing for an API that excludes nVidia. On the other hand, you’re talking about nVidia arguing for an SDK that optimizes for nVidia. One removes games, the other makes games run less well.
It’s obvious which one is worse. AMD is trying to spin by saying NOW after all these months that they will consider letting other companies join up in Mantle, but consider this.
If AMD think it’s so, so easy to port Mantle to other architectures, then why do they exclude every GPU except GCN-based GPU’s (excluding every APU produced before 2014 and any discrete card from the 6xxx series and before) from running an API that does the most benefit in CPU or GPU-limited scenarios? If they can’t even make Mantle run on their older architectures, then why would other companies be able to make it run on completely different architectures? 😉
xxxxKxxxx
June 26, 2014 at 16:39
Do you have a source about AMD not supporting multithreaded CPUs in their drivers? This is nonsense.
Are you trying to say that although AMD has crappy drivers that don’t support multithreaded CPUs and yet they managed to produce equal or better GPUs to nvidia’s (and cheaper too) under DX?
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1041?vs=1037
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1059?vs=1072
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1060?vs=1187
OMG OMG nvidia fanboy, what happens if they do decide to “support multithreaded CPUs” will they then be 20% better under DX? (this is by your own logic, which of course is wrong since, obviously, both nvidia and AMD are trying their best, except nvidia is also trying to cheat)
Maxiviper117
June 26, 2014 at 19:28
People can complain all they want, how they had bad experiences on AMD or bad experiences on Nvidia, everyone is gonna tell you something different. Like just because one person is having kak with Nvidia drivers and such doesn’t make it the rule. Some will have good experiences and some will have bad, just think of all the number of differently configured systems out there, there is BOUND to be problems on Nvidia and AMD drivers, it inevitable. nothings perfect and then there is preference.
Lloyd Franklin
March 18, 2016 at 05:59
So AMD want PC games to look boring? Screw them I choose GameWorks. It’s not GameWorks that causes performance issues it’s lazy developers.