Anita Sarkeesian is back with another video showcasing how terrible it is to be a female in the gaming community. Oh no wait, this is different, this is a video where males of all races tell us how great it is to be a male gamer and lists 25 reasons.
To start, this is an opinion piece by the author indicated and does not represent the views of the publication or its staff.
Here’s the video
Now, I personally dislike Anita. I feel she’s simply enriching herself to the detriment of our industry. A very short history lesson.
Anita first entered the scene when she helped another small publication, Bitch, create an online series talking about women in popular culture. The series was a relative success and then Anita decided to go it alone and create a follow up. During her research she found that gaming was a cesspool of misogyny and so she started her Tropes vs Women in Videogames.
The series was kickstarted and due to some death threats and threats of rape that were widely publicised, it went on to earn her over $158 000. I want to make it clear right here and now – I in no way condone the treatment of Ms. Sarkeesian or any form of threats on the internet. This is abhorrent behavior that I often rant against in all its forms. It is unfortunate that she has had to experience that, even if the publicity ended up helping her reach her Kickstarter target.
One of her long lasting claims is that she’s always been interested in gaming and is a lifelong gamer. However as many people have pointed out this is simply not true as this video clearly shows.
Beyond my dislike of Anita Sarkeesian, I find the emphasis on women in gaming to be rather one-sided. I’m not saying that the treatment or role of women in gaming doesn’t deserve discussion, but that other issues such as racism or abuse in general shouldn’t be overshadowed or relegated to a side note. Just like in all industries, there are issues of discrimination against people of other races, genders, religious affiliations or sexual orientations – by shining a light so strongly on women in gaming, it can draw the assumption to some that the other issues simply aren’t as prevalent.
Give me 25 reasons
I just wanted to post the above so that we are clear where I stand on the issue regarding Anita. Now let’s look at the points raised in her latest video which actually come from this article posted in April this year.
I can choose to remain completely oblivious, or indifferent to the harassment that many women face in gaming spaces.
Anyone can remain oblivious to problems, you don’t need to be male for this. It also has nothing to do with being a gamer?
I am never told that video games or the surrounding culture is not intended for me because I am male.
No but I’m told it’s not for me because I’m an adult, married, old. I also get told that games like The Sims and Candy Crush aren’t real games
I can publicly post my username, gamertag or contact information online without having to fear being stalked or sexually harassed because of my gender.
Are you insane or just never been online? I’ve been abused countless times for being too good, too bad, stupid, ugly, african etc. People find a reason to abuse people, gender is just yet another thing that gets tossed about. As is sexuality.
I will never be asked to “prove my gaming cred” simply because of my gender.
I’ll give you this one, people assume men/boys are better at games. Unfortunately right now in the world that assumption is based in reality that the top gamers are mainly male.
If I enthusiastically express my fondness for video games no one will automatically assume I’m faking my interest just to “get attention” from other gamers.
There is a small and vocal group of petulant children who do this. I give them as much credit as I do Anita and her stance.
I can look at practically any gaming review site, show, blog or magazine and see the voices of people of my own gender widely represented.
There are many female gaming journalists whose views are widely represented. I for one rarely notice the gender of an author until they enter the realm of feminist discussions. When they are talking about gaming I really don’t care and I disagree that many people do.
When I go to a gaming event or convention, I can be relatively certain that I won’t be harassed, groped, propositioned or catcalled by total strangers.
I have been lucky enough to attend many gaming events and not once have I seen anything of the sort. Our own local female journalists have also not experienced this and they have attended international events as well. Of course this is purely anecdotal and there have been plenty of reported incidents of people experiencing this kind of harassment; I’m not trying to say that this doesn’t happen at all, but simply that neither I nor any male or female journalist I have dealt with has experienced this.
I will never be asked or expected to speak for all other gamers who share my gender.
One of the constant things that gets asked of me is whether or not “my husband/son would enjoy this game”. It’s a natural question from the opposite gender and they are simply looking for your opinion. You are not the spokesperson of your gender, just a member of it being asked a question.
I can be sure that my gaming performance (good or bad) won’t be attributed to or reflect on my gender as a whole.
Yeah mine’s normally attributed to my sexuality or what you were doing with my mother last night. It’s online banter, which I despise, and people will use what they think is your weakness to get to you. It’s also not a gaming specific problem; in cricket it’s called sledging and is massively popular at the top level.
My gaming ability, attitude, feelings or capability will never be called into question based on unrelated natural biological functions.
Again let’s go back to sexuality, athleticism, or even race. These three things are used every day against men all over the world to call into question their ability.
I can be relatively sure my thoughts about video games won’t be dismissed or attacked based solely on my tone of voice, even if I speak in an aggressive, obnoxious, crude or flippant manner.
I’m going to predict the future here: my thoughts will be attacked in the comment section below. I guarantee it. Also I guarantee that the people doing it didn’t read this line and don’t know why you responded ‘cookie’ to them.
I can openly say that my favorite games are casual, odd, non-violent, artistic, or cute without fear that my opinions will reinforce a stereotype that “men are not real gamers.”
As I said previously, men go through this as well. “real gamers” is a label that gets applied by people who need the gaming scene to validate their opinions of themselves. It’s not a male vs female thing.
When purchasing most major video games in a store, chances are I will not be asked if (or assumed to be) buying it for a wife, daughter or girlfriend.
I was in Animeworx this weekend buying some Skylanders for my girls and the, very nice, store clerk presumed and spoke to me as if I was buying it for my kids and not myself. Refer to previous points on real gamers and cute games.
The vast majority of game studios, past and present, have been led and populated primarily by people of my own gender and as such most of their products have been specifically designed to cater to my demographic.
The vast majority of businesses on this planet are led by males. This is absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Businesses make games that will sell, this is why Candy Crush exists and why my girls find hundreds of games that let you dress up dolls. The market exists so people make them. (PS: My girls also love Skyrim and COD) I think this debate is well explained by feminist Christina Sommers:
I can walk into any gaming store and see images of my gender widely represented as powerful heroes, villains and non-playable characters alike.
Lara Croft (Tomb Raider), Faith (Mirrors Edge), Chell (Portal), Samantha Byrne (Gears of War), Jill Valentine (Resident Evil)
I will almost always have the option to play a character of my gender, as most protagonists or heroes will be male by default.
Same point as the previous one.
I do not have to carefully navigate my engagement with online communities or gaming spaces in order to avoid or mitigate the possibility of being harassed because of my gender.
Same point as an earlier one, males get harassed as well.
I probably never think about hiding my real-life gender online through my gamer-name, my avatar choice, or by muting voice-chat, out of fear of harassment resulting from my being male.
Same as previous point
When I enter an online game, I can be relatively sure I won’t be attacked or harassed when and if my real-life gender is made public
Three times in a row, seriously?
If I am trash-talked or verbally berated while playing online, it will not be because I am male nor will my gender be invoked as an insult.
Four… How many unique points again?
While playing online with people I don’t know I won’t be interrogated about the size and shape of my real-life body parts, nor will I be pressured to share intimate details about my sex life for the pleasure of other players.
Penis, that is what people make fun of if you are male. Also we are often asked about our athleticism and ability to fight. If you are sharing intimate details about your sex life for the pleasure of others you are really hanging around the wrong people.
Complete strangers generally do not send me unsolicited images of their genitalia or demand to see me naked on the basis of being a male gamer.
This is true, but once you get the image you can easily get that person banned/arrested for abuse. It’s illegal and really quite easy to stamp out.
In multiplayer games I can be pretty sure that conversations between other players will not focus on speculation about my “attractiveness” or “sexual availability” in real-life.
This is the only one of the above that I have actually experienced online. It is rude and uncalled for and was shouted down relatively quickly. The problem, in my humble opinion, is our natural urge to mate and to find a mate. We are still animals no matter how many times we try to assure each other that we are not.
If I choose to point out sexism in gaming, my observations will not be seen as self-serving, and will therefore be perceived as more credible and worthy of respect than those of my female counterparts, even if they are saying the exact same thing.
No I will be told that I don’t understand because I’m not female. The only time my point about sexism in gaming will be accepted is if I agree with what you are saying. If a female disagrees with it they are called a token female and told they are only saying that to look cool to the guys.
Because it was created by a straight white male, this checklist will likely be taken more seriously than if it had been written by virtually any female gamer.
I think your entire list is fallacious – and did you feel the need to mention that you were straight? 99% of your readers really couldn’t care less about your sexuality.
Conclusion
Okay so why did I feel the need to talk about these 25 points? Because I feel Anita and her group are attacking and harassing members of the gaming community. I don’t feel she is looking to improve or fix anything in the community. She is making a lot of money from pretending that she is. The gaming community is made up of hundreds, if not thousands, of smaller communities and I can absolutely guarantee that you will find one that makes you feel perfectly at home.
I particularly despise the DOTA community as I find it massively racist, homophobic and abusive to newcomers. That opinion doesn’t make it a fact and I simply avoid the community. A large part of the Call of Duty community annoys me so I generally mute everyone before starting the games.
We all don’t have to like everyone and get on with everyone. We also don’t need to change our stances and opinions in life simply because it offends someone. The interconnected online world of gaming now joins people all over the world. There will be problems but these problems are not limited to, or even largely attributed to being female.
I simply do not agree that a good looking, white, university educated woman living in a first world country with all the freedoms that come with that is the best person to call males privileged and imply that being white and female is more of a problem than being a part of any other racial, sexual or religious minority. Anita is attacking those she sees as privileged without recognizing her own privileges; she has done a great job of marketing herself on an issue that I don’t feel really affects her personally.
I am not saying there is no problem here – there is an issue of sexism in gaming. I’m saying that I don’t feel Anita is in any way solving or helping to resolve that problem. I, for one, am sick and tired of people implying I’m the problem because I’m male. I am a strong supporter of women and people of all backgrounds – how could I be a loving husband or father to two young women otherwise?
Feel free to leave your opinions or responses below, and my personal twitter account is linked at the top. I do love the abuse I get on there so feel free to share it if you disagree or I’ve offended you.
Last Updated: December 3, 2014
Matthew Holliday
December 3, 2014 at 12:38
tl;dr
feminists are like, SO 6 months ago.
when booth babes were all the rage. whenever that was, i cant remember.
RinceThis
December 3, 2014 at 12:41
Why are is womminz wearing a suitz?
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 12:46
hahaha
Weanerdog
December 3, 2014 at 12:57
I am going to flag this comment so that you have to ban yourself. Also good to see that you were in fact not eaten.
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 13:33
A completely trustworthy source on youtube told me about the feminist conspiracy to co-opt traditional mens attire, thus forcing men to stop wearing clothes to avoid appearing female, and therefore playing right into womens hands. It’s all about mens bodies. Truth yo!
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 14:08
They making us wear makeup too!
THE CONSPIRACY IS REAL!
RinceThis
December 3, 2014 at 14:09
Shame, leave @johnambitious:disqus alone.
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 14:14
It all makes sense now! They’re forcing us helpless men to wear makeup to look like MIMES! Not content to strip us of our power literally and figuratively, they’re trying to take away our speech!
J_Joestar
December 3, 2014 at 21:25
you know the difference between you and me?
I make this look GOOD
Sageville
December 4, 2014 at 09:48
Carry on, you do look fabulous dahling!
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 12:43
Luckily we still have developers like these: Watch the intro.
David
December 3, 2014 at 12:44
Wow wow wow, slow down there buddy. Facts are no replacement for feelings okay.
I’m sure we can expect to have a calm, rational conversation about all this…
http://t.co/NxJ2BuUQ0Q
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 12:47
She’s a troll, don’t feed (Also my packets of cookies are ready)
Captain JJ the fair
December 3, 2014 at 12:49
I’m with you on this one Gavin. There’s a big difference in trying to actually help where help is needed and liking the sound of your own voice.
HouwGobz
December 3, 2014 at 12:50
“I’m going to predict the future here: my thoughts will be attacked in the comment section below.” Tsk. Have some faith Gavin. You’re going to be agreed with in the worst possible way.
Also, Christina Sommers is almost as big a nutter doing as much damage as Anita is at times.
But all that aside, best line of the entire piece: “I particularly despise the DOTA community as I find it massively racist, homophobic and abusive to newcomers.”
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 12:51
They sum it up as being toxic
Captain JJ the fair
December 3, 2014 at 12:51
I’m putting myself in the firing range here, but I don’t think people like Jessica Nigiri are doing the women in gaming any favours.
ToshZA
December 3, 2014 at 12:52
Honestly, she’s just being herself, and comfortable in her own skin. Anita and her ilk are the problem.
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 13:02
Yes, the sex negative feminists are the problem.
Some women want to wear and do what they like. If they want to wear a burka or a bikini I’ll respect their right to do so. The sex negative feminists are like those who throw the acid into the faces of unveiled women in Iran. They have no respect for freedom and individuality. If they want to be sexy. Let them be.
ToshZA
December 3, 2014 at 13:07
Exactly. The issue is lack of equality – but if we discriminate either way then we are part of the problem. Leave people to be who they are and dress how they want to dress, without fear of harassment. Yes, people.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 12:54
She lives for cosplaying I think. And she takes the good and bad with it.
Captain JJ the fair
December 3, 2014 at 12:57
I don’t mind that, I just think it draws all kinds of bad attention from the wrong kinds of people. Over sexualised cosplay kind of defies the point imo. But I’m always getting flack for saying that.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 12:59
She’s very popular mind,check the likes and then the comments, yeah she draws bad attention but that’s part of the job
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 13:04
Let them be offended. She should dress how she wants to.
Weanerdog
December 3, 2014 at 12:55
Why because she goes against the opinions of what others call the norm? I do not know her motivation so therefore could not even try to offer up an opinion.
RinceThis
December 3, 2014 at 12:57
U r a dik fem hating man wh0re pig dat no 1 likes! #GG is realz
Captain JJ the fair
December 3, 2014 at 12:57
Wow dude. You’re on a roll today 😉
RinceThis
December 3, 2014 at 13:26
Must be a very small role to impress you!
Captain JJ the fair
December 3, 2014 at 13:38
Well, you’re a small dude. Didn’t expect a big role or roll. Huehuehue
RinceThis
December 3, 2014 at 13:54
And you’re a greying dude, need more rolls!
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 13:07
Dood, #GG better still mean “Good Game” and not “Gamer Gate”~!
Mossel
December 3, 2014 at 14:37
She’s doing my imagination some favours…
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
December 3, 2014 at 12:53
Yeah, I;’m an not a fan of Sommers. Not really a fan of Sarkeesian either, but she makes good points, and I think that these issues *do* need to be talked about.
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 12:54
Come play moar Quake Gobz.
HouwGobz
December 3, 2014 at 12:58
Haven’t seen you playing in ages. Got depressed about it. Couldn’t bring myself to load it up again unless guaranteed that you’d be there to receive a shotty to the face. 🙁
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 13:00
Have been away for a while too, but playing again almost daily the last few months. Miss my #laddergoat peeps 🙁
HouwGobz
December 3, 2014 at 13:05
Plot Twist: Not referring to a hashtag.
If I come on later and you’re not there, there will be words.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
December 3, 2014 at 12:57
i think people should be able to make whatever games they want, but i also think that if they’re insensitive, denigrating etc, people should be able to call them up on that; awareness is key.
Ialso think people should be bale to make games like Gone Home, and yes, Depression Quest, without being bullied, and having people label them as “not even real games”.
I’d like to see gaming as a positive thing. I’d love for everyone to love games. It can be FOR EVERYONE.
Her Highness the Hipster
December 3, 2014 at 12:58
hear, hear!
Guild
December 3, 2014 at 13:00
Where is the real Geoff and what have you done with him?
Matthew Holliday
December 3, 2014 at 15:22
he has been replaced by the Casual Overlord Geoff.
David
December 3, 2014 at 13:49
We can’t live in a world where “people should be able to make whatever games they want” and one where guilt by association can be so readily accepted at the same time.
See, I also believe, like you, that people should be able to make, play or enjoy whatever games they want. I agree that people should be allowed to call others out freely.
The problem is there are hypocritical people out there that will say they want these things as well, but then not tolerate games THEY don’t like, they believe to be ideology, made by people they don’t like and if you don’t agree with them, then you are the worst person in the whole wide world.
They will say they’re against harassment, then dogpile their opponents.
They will criticize but not accept criticism.
They will demand respect, but not give it.
They will fight “agenda bias” by being bias.
Now it sounds like I’m talking about #GamerGate, but… here’s the shocking thing. The extreme OTHER side of #GamerGate, the ones that don’t want to be labelled anti-#GamerGate. They ironically fit every single one of these problems as well.
But they’d never accept that. There’s no place to be a moderate here, and that’s the biggest loss for us all.
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 13:53
GROUP HUGS!
“We are the world, we are the children….”
Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)
December 3, 2014 at 14:39
but Depression Quest is so meh.. :/
Matthew Holliday
December 3, 2014 at 15:21
promoting casual games and your comment gets featured by the Casualgamer staff.
thus says our Casual Overlord Geoff.
also, we do live in a world where devs can make whatever casual games they want, the success of League of Legends is a testament to this.
The problem is that said devs, care more about profit margins than public oppinon.
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 15:25
I agree with most of what you say here Geoff, however, I disagree that people can’t have opinions on things. Ergo, what is and is not a game. Much like the discussion of what is and isn’t art. What constitutes a game is in the eye of the beholder, and I don’t think anyone out there has the right to say one way or the other, what qualifies as X to you. You know?
Gaming can be positive, or negative. We’ve all seen games that we object to, or, we’ve all played games that others object to. But, it’s something you personally have to buy into. The same goes for movies, books, music etc… there’re are examples of all types of media that for whatever reason, some are simply not interested in. But, I think it’s important that we not attempt to censor any of it, because I think when those games (or books, or music etc..) do come out that we have a serious issue with, it does open up dialogue/discussion about whatever that issue is.
viruzz
December 3, 2014 at 18:00
“Ialso think people should be able to make games like Gone Home, and yes,
Depression Quest, without being bullied, and having people label them
as “not even real games”.”
Im sorry but: Freedom of speech.
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 12:59
Thing is….there is a problem. Yes all demographics face these prejudices, but females get these problems worse than males and that’s a fact. I don’t like snorekeesian, but…There is a problem, and people need to stand up against it.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
December 3, 2014 at 12:59
That’s it. There are problems, and talking about them is a good thing.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:00
Anita talking about them is not so good.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
December 3, 2014 at 13:01
If she gets people talking, that’s GOOD.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:02
It gets people talking but not about the issue. They talk about her.
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 13:08
But that’s the problem in itself….People SHOULD be upset at the cause of the subject matter. If we get upset at Anita then we too are part of the problem. We don’t need to like her in order to take away the good points she has. I personally don’t fully agree with her female in video game tropes, but videos like the one above point out real issues and we should be at a point where we’re able to realize that….
But I feel you, that’s how it goes and whenever she is brought up it suddenly becomes a fight and argument about her
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 13:14
That is because she has a lot of influence with her BS arguments and lies. She continues to win awards and even get on shows like the Daily Show. Its right to tear her arguments a new one when she gets it wrong. Which is most of the time.
Why can we be as critical of Sarah Palin but not Anita $harke$ian? If we are upset about Palin are we part of the political problem too?
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 13:26
Look, I’m not saying we should blindly accept everything she says, but we need to be open-minded and we need to take the truth with the BS. Yes she does have a ton of BS arguments and she won a lot of awards but we can’t just dismiss something, especially when its the truth just because its coming from someone we don’t like/don’t agree with. If anyone speaks out about discrimination, regardless of who it is, then we should rally behind that, not necessarily the person, but the ideal.
Anon A Mouse
December 3, 2014 at 13:35
I get what you’re saying, but again, discrimination comes in all forms, gender is just one part of it. Why should gender discrimination be held at a higher esteem than say, racism?
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 13:38
It shouldn’t! It really really shouldn’t….We should stand against ALL discrimination. And that is my main point, not just about female discrimination. It doesn’t matter who it is, if they bring forth REAL and FACTUAL issues…then we need to learn how to sift through and find the pressing issues and not dismiss it because of the person talking about it.
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 13:41
But if they can dismiss the person talking about the issue that means it’s not real. MAGIC!
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 13:45
Well that seems to be how things are going at the moment…because we dont like radical feminists, there suddenly isn’t an issue. While I want to say I understand why people are like that, I mean, sometimes they go overboard, but seriously, we need to be able to make up our own mind and take the good out of things and not just dismiss things based on the bad
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:16
My problem is she lied about being a gamer. So what right does she have to bring her feminist views into gaming other than just using it as a platform for feminism
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 13:21
We’re not supposed to care. Well, not about everything. She’s not a gamer and that is why I don’t agree with he female video game tropes. But for the subject matter like the one above, I can agree with what she is saying. I really don’t like her but females in this industry/hobby do get the short end of the stick…So yeah, we just gotta know where we should draw the line and what things we should actually care about.
ElNicko
December 3, 2014 at 13:32
THIS ^^ !!
Azazel
December 4, 2014 at 07:43
I agree that talking about the issue is a good thing but I think that the problem most people have is that sarkeesian just isn’t really into gaming yet tries to change the industry. It would be like if I demanded that pride and predjudice be rewritten to more accurately portray males, even though I could not care less about the book itself. I do agree, too, that there are issues of sexism in video games which need to be addressed but from a personal level, I would be more comfortable with them being addressed by women that have a legitimate interest in gaming as opposed to people like anita who are just trying to milk the #GG cash cow
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 3, 2014 at 13:05
Yeah, we’re all too happy to just dismiss it as feminist mumbo jumbo, but that just further propagates the problem and it gets swept under the rug. So, I fully agree with you. It should be spoken about and instead of being upset at zzzzzkeesian, we should rather be upset at the actual problem…I too don’t like her, but, she gets people talking about these things.
Ryan
December 3, 2014 at 13:12
Please don’t quote Summers – she is not a feminist – perhaps you should read more about the issues before you write posts. Start with gamersgate… Or the Witcher forums. Or the Bioware forums. In fact, try any forum filled with white male privilege.
If you are really interested in intelligent discussion as opposed to frothing rage at the idea that woman can be equal try freethought blogs or skepchicks – they have dealt extensively with these issues – as have the Forbes game writers.
PS Summers is a right winger who is anti feminism.
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 13:16
Nice troll 9/10 😀
konfab aka derp
December 3, 2014 at 13:16
g8 b8 m8 i r8 u 8/8
viruzz
December 3, 2014 at 18:06
Troll harder kiddo
Haig Tait
December 4, 2014 at 11:50
The shills where in great form this day
Guild
December 3, 2014 at 13:12
Got distracted by all the Anita stuff and blah blah….I forgot that it was essentially supposed to be about the 25 benefits of being a male gamer. Ya, not seeing it and pretty much agree with Gavin’s comments.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:13
They make me sorry for having a penis
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 14:29
HAHAHA!
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 14:57
Well you should!
Also keeping them in jars next to your bed is still not cool
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 15:09
Mans gotta have a hobby
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:13
lel
http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/ad6ebZj_460sa.gif
konfab aka derp
December 3, 2014 at 13:15
KEK
Dutch Matrix
December 3, 2014 at 13:15
Am I going to be labled as sexist if I say that Anita looks quite hot?
Mongoose
December 3, 2014 at 13:15
Yes yes you are:)
viruzz
December 3, 2014 at 18:09
Sorry but a chihuahua looks hotter the anita, she looks like a gipsy
konfab aka derp
December 3, 2014 at 13:16
Someone needs to make an equal opportunity FPS where the all the baddies are female.
After all there is such a bias in killing men.
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 13:18
My opinion:
1.) Where possible, all genders and races should be available as physical character choices, especially AAA games, indies or small games may be forgiven as they may not have budget/time to provide alternates *forgiven.
2.) ALL THE GAMEZ! Don’t restrict the creation of any game by their content, issue a warning sure, but at least let the public decide on what to buy or not.
3.) Games like DOTA or COD are naturally toxic environments, this is not a gender thing, this is a dooshbag thing, dooshbags will target you where they feel you are vunerable, if you are female they WILL target your gender.
4.) I refuse to be pressured into hating someone.
5.) There are some areas of gaming are mysogynistic or sexist, we need to accept that and push against it.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:22
Doos bag or douchebag? 😛
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 13:23
DOOSHBAG! DOOSHBAG!
FYI, never refer to Boksburg as Doosberg while in Doosberg.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:23
hahahaha
Kromas, Guardian of Cenarius
December 3, 2014 at 13:20
She can piss right off while I am having fun playing WoW with my female Guild Master who is one of the best rDPS we have coincidentally. Could not even finish half of this article before I just got plain bored.
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 13:21
I wish we had more ladies in the comment section, kinda feels sausage festish in topics like this.
RinceThis
December 3, 2014 at 13:27
But we have Trevor!
Anon A Mouse
December 3, 2014 at 13:28
And JJ
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 13:30
And Brenda
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 13:47
You’re right, also he must count as like 5 wimmins at least….
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 14:04
ARE YOU CALLING ME FAT? 🙁
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 14:05
Massively Boned?
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 14:07
That’s better. BEEFCAKE!
DiscordianKitty
December 4, 2014 at 11:07
*Reads the article. Looks at the conversation immediately below this comment. Glances over the rest of the comment section.*
Gee, I wonder why there aren’t more ladies in the comment section. Hmmm.
Anon A Mouse
December 3, 2014 at 13:27
Cookie
Ryan
December 3, 2014 at 13:35
Also the video was not written by Anita Sarkeesian. Jonathan McIntosh wrote and produced the video.
Deceased
December 3, 2014 at 13:39
Just saying… When your profile reaches around level 75+ in DotA 2, the matchmaking throws you into lobbies with higher level players, where it’s generally not so toxic… In fact, I’ve been in games where lower level players were actually helped rather than belittled in the past few months… Which was actually insanely awesome to see 😀
Also, been playing in lots of games where there were females, and interestingly enough… I didn’t spot a single shred of sexism towards them ( whether they were good or new to the game ).
Point being… Gavin, when can we expect you in some DotA 2 games?
noxville
December 4, 2014 at 10:40
It has almost nothing to do with your level (if you’re above level ~10 you’re equal in that criterion to everyone else), just your MMR and party size.
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 13:40
…
Mongoose
December 3, 2014 at 13:42
There are two issues here. One equality in gaming is a problem where you have pointed out that people are abused by race, religion, sex and all those thing. The other issue is people are just so damn sensitive but that gamers also need to take responsibility on how they behave is of a bigger concern. The fact that Anita could gather such a following must surely raise alarm bells. Gaming is for everyone. If you play farmville, cod or jrpg’s it doesn’t matter.
Haig Tait
December 3, 2014 at 14:09
Based Gavin. You doing the lords work sir.
Ruan
December 3, 2014 at 14:23
Haig, stop following me around pls.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 14:11
Anita the Youtube Warrior!
Doxxing is bad, death threats are wrong and I’m all for feminism and fairness. But there’s a reason why Mario is a guy and Pea is a Princess. Human nature is old and wise, there are unwritten rules of gender roles that shouldn’t be tampered with. Whether we’d like to admit it or not, you can’t beat mother nature when it comes to evolution.
Yes, when the line is crossed something must be done, though I feel that the majority of us know what that line is and wouldn’t stand for gross injustice. I don’t need a Sarkeesian watchdog to tell me what’s right and what isn’t. Play games and if you don’t like them, make your own. She’s done nothing but criticize this industry so I really don’t have patience for this delusional crusade of hers.
Brady miaau
December 3, 2014 at 14:16
SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad
December 3, 2014 at 14:18
“Research”
Lol. What. Did she speak to some Orangutans about the socio-political importance of bananas in Asia? I THINK NOT!
Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)
December 3, 2014 at 14:43
Have you read her master’s thesis? It left me shaking my head at the social sciences… sigh!
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 15:08
Skimmed it and was not pleased. Have you seen the Cross Alpha Omega Infinity Time Key of Life Univere Creation Protocol?!
In a way her outlook and general attitude remind me of the creator of that ‘masterpiece’.
If you haven’t seen it, here’s the original post:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=43&t=1062558&page=1&pp=15
Found it on Reddit but can’t remember where. Dare you to read all the comments. I guarantee shock, awe and hysterical laughter.
Guest
December 3, 2014 at 17:00
O_O
Wow.
Daniel Hallinan
December 3, 2014 at 14:26
Hmmm.
Okay, I’ve got a few things to say regarding your points. I’ve left a lot out as my answers tend to address later points in earlier answers – particularly the idea that everyone gets online abuse:
“Are you insane or just never been online? I’ve been abused countless times for being too good, too bad, stupid, ugly, african etc. People find a reason to abuse people, gender is just yet another thing that gets tossed about. As is sexuality.”
This is something I see quite often, the idea that “everyone gets hate” online, and that hate towards women isn’t something special – though from what I’ve personally seen, there’s a *notable* difference in the level of
aggression, anger, vileness, sexually charged, and ultimately relentless nature of abuse of gamers who are assumed to be female. More so because a lot of it seems to fall into the “get into the kitchen” idea where the users often feel they are being humorous at the expense of the (presumed) female gamer. I’ve repeatedly seen female friends playing games online *specifically* hunted down and targeted for grieving, while the males chuckle as the female vents her aggression in reaction.
“Unfortunately right now in the world that assumption is based in reality that the top gamers are mainly male.”
Eh, iffy. I often see male gamers completely disregard skill of female gamers, either assuming cheating or outside help is involved, or simply disregard it. Additionally, I know several female gamers who, while being fantastic at games, actively avoid any professional environment to avoid male reactions and/or
potential abuse.
“There is a small and vocal group of petulant children who do this. I give them as much credit as I do Anita and her stance.”
It’s not so much the credit that’s given to them, but more that it’s something that one expects to see when such posts or articles are posted by a female speaking from a point of experience.
“There are many female gaming journalists whose views are widely represented. I for one rarely notice the
gender of an author until they enter the realm of feminist discussions. When they are talking about gaming I really don’t care and I disagree that many people do.”
Eh, recent events especially have made this a muddy thing to talk about, considering the outrage towards Jenn Frank, Leigh Alexander, and others who often received snide comments due to their sexuality long prior to the GG debacle. I recall the utter outrage on the Rock Paper Shotgun site when it was revealed that one of the writers was female (I believe a photo of her was posted in an article?) and talking and critiquing games. At lans I’ve repeatedly seen male gamers scoff at the idea of a female being an authority on games. The issue isn’t the idea that “most” people react this way, but that there is a constant group of people who do believe a reviewer has lower credibility if they are female.
“One of the constant things that gets asked of me is whether or not “my husband/son would enjoy this game”. It’s a natural question from the opposite gender and they are simply looking for your opinion. You are not the spokesperson of your gender, just a member of it being asked a question.”
It’s possible there may have been a misunderstanding on your part here. In regards to issues of female representation in games, I’ve *often* seen male gamers state there’s no issue at all because the one female they ask agreed with them, be it a girlfriend, a friend, or a co-worker.
“Yeah mine’s normally attributed to my sexuality or what you were doing with my mother last night. It’s online
banter, which I despise, and people will use what they think is your weakness to get to you. It’s also not a gaming specific problem; in cricket it’s called sledging and is massively popular at the top level.”
I see this comment being made often as well, but it links to something I’ve already written about above regarding online abuse being “normal”. I’ve seen abuse being disproportionately geared up towards females on a regular basis – and the idea that the sexual identification of “female” is a weak spot that can be attacked is indicative of a much larger problem.
“I was in Animeworx this weekend buying some Skylanders for my girls and the, very nice, store clerk presumed and spoke to me as if I was buying it for my kids and not myself. Refer to previous points on real gamers and cute games.”
I’m… not entirely sure if you’ve addressed the issue in the point given, and your point doesn’t really counter it (assuming that’s what it was meant to do). The issue isn’t that these assumptions are only made for females, but that often it’s assumed by clerks (among others) that females purchasing or playing games isn’t done as an act of genuine interest – often being accused of doing it for attention or, in the case of clerks, buying it for someone else. Your point is interesting in that the assumption made by the clerk makes it awkward if you WERE buying it for yourself – imagine if that was the situation when buying most of your games for yourself?
Additionally, I know female friends who have had trouble ordering games more outside the obvious upcoming big titles, as the more obscure names have often lead clerks to assume the friend has the name wrong, or that the game doesn’t exist – when male friends pre-ordering the exact same game have had no issue,
as the clerks actually went to check. One particular game example I recall was Professor Layton vs Pheonix Wright: Ace Attorney.
“Lara Croft (Tomb Raider), Faith (Mirrors Edge), Chell (Portal), Samantha Byrne (Gears of War), Jill Valentine
(Resident Evil)”
Ironically, you’re listing exceptions that prove the rule. Moreso, Chell doesn’t appear on the cover for either portal game and Samantha has secondary or tertiary placement. The vast majority of games do have male leads, and most big studios are actively dissuaded by marketing from deviating from this (see the Bioshock Infinite debacle).
“This is true, but once you get the image you can easily get that person banned/arrested for abuse. It’s illegal
and really quite easy to stamp out.”
Okay… but that doesn’t’ stop it from happening, doesn’t address the issue that it happens in the first place, and stamping out online abuse, including image abuse, has proven difficulty due to the anonymity of online interaction.
“I think your entire list is fallacious – and did you feel the need to mention that you were straight? 99%
of your readers really couldn’t care less about your sexuality.”
Aaaaactually…. there a *ton* of negative associations with sexual alignment, though while the issue with females is often one of validity, issues with sexual alignment are more about disgust. Both cases are valid in regards to how communities perceive them and, ultimately, disregard their opinions. The idea of the Straight White Male is the safest identity to… well… identify with.
And on to your conclusion…
…which touches on something I’ve seen quite a lot: That Anita is attacking games and gamers. I’ve personally not seen this, though I’ve seen a lot that would make gamers react defensively, and by extension see her as an attacker.
Her Women vs Tropes in Videogames, being the largest source of hate, never actually says games are sexist at any point, nor does it say gamers are sexist or bad for playing them. Hell, she even begins *every* video by saying that even if she criticizes a game, it doesn’t mean the game isn’t enjoyable and fun.
What the videos DO do, is analyze *tropes* used in game *developement*. There’s a massive misconception that when she looks at a game, like Hitman, she’s stating reasons why that game is sexist – when she’s rather looking at examples of problematic tropes *within* that game, and why those *tropes* are problematic. She’s looking at pieces within a machine, and not the machine as a whole.
It’s standard critique.
Sageville
December 3, 2014 at 14:54
Eish FAAAR TL:DR
Tarryn van der Byl
December 3, 2014 at 15:09
Also, “gaming cred” isn’t limited to skill. This one time, I wrote an article that mentioned my experience playing some old CRPG – either Planescape Torment or Arcanum, I think. In the comments, some guy asked, sneeringly, if “we’re expected to believe you played that”. None of my male colleagues gets that kind of shit, ever.
Brady miaau
December 3, 2014 at 15:26
I do not often get seriously angry, but I am now.
What so people did not want to believe that you had played the game? WTF? Why would someone lie about that? Are cool games just for boys? And I believe these are cool games, as I am sure most people would.
I wonder (ok, I lie, I very strongly suspect) that men (boys!) who write comments like that suffer from an extremely poor self image and try to bring others down to boost their own self worth. AND THAT PISSES ME OFF.
I was raised in a “classic” sense. I will stand when a lady enters the room, not because I must, but out of respect. I will offer my chair (some ladies get damned annoyed with me, but it is how I was raised). The crux of what I was taught was respect to all, men and women, at the same level. No better, no worse. I will let a woman through the door first, but I will also let a man through the door first. Manners and RESPECT.
And if there is no issue, rest assured Sommers will create one.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 15:32
Sorry to hear you go have to deal with crap like that. It’s a problem and I don’t think anyone here is denying it. I’m constantly shocked at how juvenile some imbeciles can be but I honestly don’t think that that in itself it has anything to do with feminism.
I respect her actions as they’ve successfully made people aware, but wanting to change fundamental human instinct is taking it one step too far. The problem is that she’s blowing this issue out of proportion and abusing the capabilities of her golden goose, so to speak. The media sensationalizing the issue doesn’t help, along with the well-off of society giving her too much attention… these are the two main things I have a problem with and, as I see it, parenting is the biggest issue. But then again that’s just my opinion.
I miss the days when games were an interactive and fun experience no matter the content or critique thereof. Games should be enjoyed by all who play them, it’s as simple as that.
Tarryn van der Byl
December 3, 2014 at 15:55
“I’m constantly shocked at how juvenile some imbeciles can be but I honestly don’t think that that in itself it has anything to do with feminism.”
I think it has everything to do with feminism – or, rather, the kind of thinking that feminism is challenging. These attitudes are very specifically entrenched in stereotyped assumptions about gender – boys do this, girls do that. I’ve been working in games for almost ten years now, and this was not an entirely isolated event. My credibility as a person who knows what they’re writing about has been repeatedly questioned on the basis of nothing more than that I am a woman.
I’m also not sure that she’s blown this issue out of proportion at all, but that instead others have in response. The amount of unadulterated hatred she’s managed to generate with a bunch of videos that wouldn’t be even remotely controversial in a first year literature class is astounding.
“Games should be enjoyed by all who play them, it’s as simple as that.”
Absolutely, but we’re not there yet. Not even close.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 16:43
“The kind of thinking that feminism is challenging.”
I agree with you there, but the negative attention she’s been experiencing is arguably no more negative than any other female celebrity, the difference here is that her fame is based on that negativity itself, where the audience is aready a tad jaded, whatever their reasons. I don’t have an issue with her past actions, it brought attention to the poor behavior some people (like yourself) have to experience. That’s why I’ve said I respect what she’s done, it has most definitely lead to progressive steps towards a solution.
Her videos weren’t very controversial but they deal with a very
controversial issue. Her main issue is completely justified but I disagree wholeheartedly with her currently overzealous methodology. Educating children (the “petulant ones”, as Gavin said) on incorrect gender stereotypes is what I think is the issue here, grown men shouldn’t feel guilty for ogling naked women. That’s just human nature.
There’s no smoke without fire, like I said action does need to be (and looks like it finally is) being taken, but the fact that she’s ‘stepped in to the limelight’ means that she can’t campaign against attention from a male audience, whether it’s negative or positive.
Reacting negatively or blowing things out of proportion stems from feeling threatened, which is something I can say both sides are at fault for. Both sides also refuse to accept balance as the answer. All I want from this whole debacle is positive development. Progress but avoidance of the extremes, to a middle ground where compromises have been made and lessons have been learned.
Heh. A man can dream, right?
Tarryn van der Byl
December 3, 2014 at 17:18
“I agree with you there, but the negative attention she’s been experiencing is arguably no more negative than any other female celebrity, the difference here is that her fame is based on that negativity itself, where the audience is aready a tad jaded, whatever their reasons.”
I don’t know. I’m part of that same audience, and I agree with a lot of what she says (even though, as a literature grad and a feminist, it’s obvious, basic stuff to me). A lot of her “fame”, as it were, is also the result of support. It’s just that the negative side of it is so much louder and so much more fucking terrible. I mean, rape and death threats because she criticised something in Hitman? Not the game, mind you, just something in it. It’s insane and it’s scary.
“Both sides also refuse to accept balance as the answer.”
That’s because, when privilege is challenged, it’s often perceived as a threat. Look at affirmative action in South Africa – white people see it as job opportunities being denied to them, when it’s actually about making the same opportunities available to non-white people.
I don’t entirely agree with you, but I like the way you think. 🙂
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 18:26
Glad we could end on the same page. You raise valid and important points so thank you for the fresh perspective.
I agree to not entirely disagree. Your thought patterns are appealing to my brain too 😉
Ryan
December 3, 2014 at 14:26
“Yes, when the line is crossed something must be done, though I feel that
the majority of us know what that line is and wouldn’t stand for gross
injustice.”
Wahahahahaha, the whole point about privilege is that you only notice it when you don’t HAVE it.
And the majority don’t get it – I think that’s the whole darn point!
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 14:39
If you’re gonna quote me at least let me know about it.
What on earth has privilege got to do with anything?
What do the majority not get?!
Your sentence structure and wording makes no sense at all. If you’re saying what I think you’re saying, using other peoples’ passion as your personal cash-cow is not the way to bring awareness to the issue of feminism, never mind abuse, rape, racism and all the other much more problematic issues facing society as a whole.
Also, I rate your trolling at about 2/10. Keep practicing.
Richard
December 3, 2014 at 14:26
What an idiotic article and opinion piece. I think Gavin should stick to simply reporting on gaming news.
Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)
December 3, 2014 at 14:44
1/10 for trolling
Richard
December 3, 2014 at 15:06
The article is cringe worthy and embarrassing. It only highlights the authors lack of insight and reasoning. While I enjoy LG, I don’t think Gavin has the chops to tackle a topic like this. Also, a site that puts up hot babes in their other news pieces is hardly one I’d trust to talk about sexism.
But sure, I’m trolling.
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 15:48
Give him a cookie
Brady miaau
December 3, 2014 at 15:49
I have cookies. But they are sugar free. Will that help?
Hammersteyn
December 3, 2014 at 15:53
Better give him two
Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)
December 3, 2014 at 14:34
Anita is this gen’s Jack Thompson, instead of blaming all society’s violent ills on video games, we can rather blame it all on the penis. Blah blah toxic masculinity… yawn yawn the patriarchy is evil.. blah blah male privilege….
Obnoxious SJW swine and insipid undersexed white knights- incoming in 9, 8, 7, 6…
Nahuel Graziani
December 3, 2014 at 14:43
The irony is that since all of these dabacles with Anita came about, it actually divided the gaming community further than before.
Deceased
December 3, 2014 at 15:01
How to +100 upvotes?
Since it was being pushed into our faces, I couldn’t care less about race, sex, language, religious views ( or anything else for that matter ) the people in the game happened to be… Because, you know… Why discriminate when you can hate everyone?!
Gareth L (That eXCheez Guy)
December 3, 2014 at 14:51
I can’t help but notice that this article, it’s opinions and its comments are entirely written by guys. I don’t completely agree with Gavin’s comments against all the “benefits”, like for example being stereotyped for being a father isn’t the same as being stereotyped against for being a woman.
No disrespect to Gavin, I’d honestly prefer it if Zoe had written this, because right now as it stands it feels more like an “I’m a guy and I don’t see a problem with what girl gamers have to put up with” opinion piece.
Anon A Mouse
December 3, 2014 at 15:31
I see so how is this comment not this part of Gavin’s opinion? “No I will be told that I don’t understand because I’m not female.”
Why should it carry more / less weight when the person’s gender is considered?
Gareth L (That eXCheez Guy)
December 3, 2014 at 15:35
The writer of the article considers a grown man buying himself toys to be as unusual as a woman buying herself a video game. They’re two totally different things.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 15:40
Different thought they may be, unusual is what they both are. Whether they’re of equal measure in unusual-ness is an entirely different and completely irrelevant matter.
Jedi
December 3, 2014 at 17:56
Guys I found Master Yoda.
J_Joestar
December 3, 2014 at 19:11
can you really say with 100% certainty that all the comments here are by guys?
Gareth L (That eXCheez Guy)
December 3, 2014 at 19:23
Is that really all that you’re taking from my comment? Do the symantics change the point that I was trying to make?
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 15:34
Sarkeesian is literally the Michael Moore of games journalism. What I mean is, aside from the issues laid out above, she will take things out of context, parse things to her own liking, and then use them as some kind of proof of what her point of view.
I think we can all agree that there’s absolutely unnecessary additions of sexism in games, hell, here’s an easy target. World of Warcraft. I know, seems relatively benign, but take a look at the armor some of the female character models wear, even Chris Metzen’s daughter noticed that Alexstraza was wearing a bikini in the middle of a war. What? Why is that even necessary?
But Sarkeesian? She’ll use a very small portion of a game like Hitman, take the entire thing out of context, draw faulty conclusions about it, and say see, misogny! The problem is, anyone who’s ever played hitman, know she’s more full of shit than a whale without an asshole. Whatever you feel about her, check the below video out. This is the kind of shit she spews, and I feel it does the entire issue a serious injustice, because it will turn people off from actual honest debate (most importantly, the people you really want to reach, not necessarily the folks who already think exactly like you do), just like Michael Moore (if you’re not familiar, he’s a liberal documentary film maker from the US…like Sarkeesian, he has good points, but the ‘evidence’ he uses to establish those points are beyond faulty…just like Sarkeesian)
Now, I also don’t in any way support harassment or death threats online, to ANYONE, male or female. However, this presents a much much bigger problem for the world as a whole. The death threats (whether true or not) and harassment online, is something that’s going to eventually cause serious problems. Why? Because as of right now, the threats against Wu, Quin and Sarkeesian have resulted in _Zero_ arrests, and _zero_ suspects. That’s a problem, because clearly you can make anonymous threats online, and even the cops/FBI can’t track you down. Anyone else see how this could become a much, much larger issue, and threat to privacy/freedom online? Because I certainly do. That shit has to stop, and we need a way to figure out how to track these people down (whether they’re gamer’s, or just trolls), otherwise, you’ll eventually see Government’s pressuring the countries that control the internet backbones to start creating far more restrictive measures to enable them to do so. And that’s NOT what we want. (The old saying of, ‘This is why we can’t have nice things’).
Brady miaau
December 3, 2014 at 15:38
It is sad when people make points I can agree with (Ms Sarkeesian) but I cannot agree with how they arrived there nor how they try to prove it. Sad.
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 15:39
Exactly, it’s not just sad, it’s scary, because for every 1 of you and I, there’s a horde of kneejerk reactionary’s out there who swallow it hook line and sinker.
Brady miaau
December 3, 2014 at 15:45
Yes, but weird as well Because we sort of agree with the conclusions or statements, just not how they arrived there. How does that work?
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 15:55
Because we’re not kneejerk reactionaries. We have actual values and moral’s, that we’ve already come to in our lifetimes, but we won’t simply follow any one person, because they parrot those beliefs. We look at the substance of each individuals arguments, and decide whether or not what they’re saying and what they’re showing, are worth being on board with.
Just because I find Sarkeesian to be a despicable human being, doesn’t mean I don’t stand up for women, or the LGBT community, or whatever minority who’s been walked all over for decades/centuries. It just means my level of integrity is much, much higher than Sarkeesians.
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 15:51
It gives people the excuse to avoid the point & instead nitpick minor details, which doesn’t help the point – especially if the point is valid.
Reminds me of what my auditing lecturer used to say when it comes to making your audit report, which is supposed to convince people of the accuracy of your findings, you’re either right or you’re wrong – there’s no half-right.
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 15:58
Actually no, it simply gives me the ability to discount people like Sarkeesian, or Michael Moore, as a standard bearer for real issues. Nothing more, nothing less. Just because I feel both of them are underhanded in their arguments, doesn’t belittle the larger issue. It just belittles them.
As a gamer for ~3 decades, I have intimate knowledge of sexism in gaming, that Sarkeesian could never hope to have. As an American, I have intimate knowledge of the gun problem in the US, that Michael Moore talks about (among other things). So, I’m capable of having conversations that don’t use terrible evidence to support conclusions, in a discussion regarding these things, while mainly laughing at the scummier figures, such as Sarkeesian and Moore.
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 17:49
Did you not read her thesis? She is a true academic! lol
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 3, 2014 at 18:47
The point I was making was that many people will seize upon an inaccuracy, like you mentioned she & Michael Moore make, to throw out the entire argument.
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 19:25
Well, that’s why I think people like this need to be discredited, before they damage the actual point. We should not shelter people like Sarkeesian and Moore from criticism, just because the issues they speak on are important. Actual truth, is every bit as important as equality, racial tolerance, gender tolerance etc…
Anon A Mouse
December 3, 2014 at 16:01
Auditing…. the bile of my working existence. If only everyone had to go through the amount of checks and cross checks before they can put anything on youtube then this will never be a topic of discussion.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 3, 2014 at 15:36
You know what, this crap needs to stop.
First off, I am not going to feel guilty because I am male. This whole feminist movement where every man should feel guilty because they are men is degrading. I treat woman with respect and as equals. Why? Because I don’t see them as inferior or sub-human.
But people like Anita, would have us believe that we need to feel bad for how they get treated by other men.
Can I give you a bit of insider info? Men get attacked just as much. As much as men want to know your bra size, men (and woman gamers alike) are real quick to make assumptions about the size ones pecker. Do you know how many times I have been attacked in-game online? I’m a guy. Do I call foul? No. Why? Because people are nasty and it’s the way things are.
Look, I’m not saying sexism doesn’t exist. It does. It is a problem. But the way people like Anita generalise hurt more than solve anything.
We should all be free to game and shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for the actions of a verbal handful that make things unpleasant.
I can guarantee you that the same guys who throw insults at woman are the same who throw very degrading and digusting insults at all other gamers, regardless of gender.
You want to be seen as an equal? Then guess what… You have to deal with it the same way males do when they are insulted. Take it on the chin and move on.
Are there cases that are worse when it comes to woman? Yes. There are. Being threatened with rape and things like that is not and will never be acceptable. But in an online community that is call for an insta-ban. So use the channels devs and publishers give you to report these players. An investigation in to their chats will reveal instantly that they are wrong and a ban will follow. If it doesn’t then call out the game creators/mods whatever on it on twitter. That way we can start weeding out the mods and devs who don’t want to take action.
But stop telling us how awesome it is to be a male gamer and how crap it is to be a female gamer. You are causing a rift where there shouldn’t be. You are making it worse. Why not make a 25 reasons why it’s awesome being a female gamer?
You can start by stating:
Reason #1:
It’s awesome when we beat those men who think woman can’t play
Be possitive about being a gamer instead of negetive and maybe things will get better.
Again, not saying sexism doesn’t exist. I just believe the approach of most feminists is wrong.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 16:13
We all try but really no one can rant like you 😉
> “25 reasons why it’s awesome to be a female gamer.”
Agree with your mentality 100%, well-said.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 3, 2014 at 17:00
Thanx man. I do try live up to my name
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 15:52
This also brings up another issue that I think is lost in this debate, because, well….it’s not about women. I’m referring to the social outcasts of gaming, mainly the males who, for whatever reason, don’t fit the current male gender stereotype; strong, masculine, good looking etc… For decades, these individuals were pushed out by society, belittled, marginalized and harassed by EVERYONE, and found a modicum of solace in gaming. Where for once, they could actually be a hero, they could be a warrior, or a legend, or smart, or whatever the fantasy may be. They could actually get the woman of their dreams in the end. (And this doesn’t even touch upon the folks with actual mental disabilities, who are simply unable to function in our social world. Autistic kids, are a big one here).
The problem is, in this debate, it’s all about damning every man who enjoys games that allows them to be what they fantasize about, without actually analyzing the root causes, or why some people, are the way they are. And it’s also about gender fantasies. When you read a fantasy novel, do you want everything to be so vanilla and bland, that there’s really no fantasy involved? Do men and women always have the same type of fantasies? Is it even logical to assume we’ll ever get to a point where that’s a reality? And, do we actually want that? Additionally, just because that’s what some find solace in, does it automatically mean that it translates into real world misogny? What I mean is, where’s is the proven connection between how males view a fantasy, and how they view/treat women in the real world (Gaze theory, Summer’s touches on this)
Think about how people who don’t like World of Warcraft, treat people who play World of Warcraft. Think about how we gamer’s treat each other. Do you think every one of us is capable of brushing that stuff off, without receding into ourselves, or even buying into the whole ‘living in their parents basements’ label?
This issue is much larger than just how women are portrayed in video games, and outright attacking it, won’t solve the problem. Especially for individuals who’ve felt marginalized for decades, it’ll only make them angry, and lash out. I’m not saying we should fear that anger, or lashing out, I’m simply saying being more open-minded about the entire thing, and not just focusing on one of the issues, is the key to solving it.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 16:04
Seriously, well-said.
If they take away the only place where I can ‘slay the dragon and save the princess’, what’s the point of slaving away behind a desk every day? If we could have all the comforts of modern living and still live by the sword, men – and I dare say women too – would be all the happier for it.
If I’m wrong feel free to say so, but don’t reply if what you’re gonna say makes you a hypocrite. Hopefully you’ll know what I mean by that.
Anon A Mouse
December 3, 2014 at 16:05
The comments from women that I get till this day when I tell them that I play games. I think I should start a youtube video and kickstart the thing.
But then again I get just as much comments because I’m an accountant. Oh the life we choose.
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 17:26
I was just writing this when I scrolled down and saw your post. For decades we had to deal with being ridiculed by girls at school, be bullied by jocks, dismissed by our peers. Yet we took all that shit on the chin like real die hard gamers and played our games.
What keeps women out of gaming? Ragdoll physics and a female character with her belly button showing.
There is nothing wrong with having Bayonetta game that appeals to male sexuality as there is nothing wrong about Twilight and 50 Shades of Gray appealing to women.
Deal with it fuckers.
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 19:01
Actually, I’m going to semi-disagree here (only slightly). I think for those in school during the 80’s and early 90’s (pre-gaming explosion basically). It had a very real and negative effect on many children’s lives. As a child of the late 70’s, the fact that I was into computers, games, and reading sci-fi/fantasy, made me an easy target, and there were many in my school just like it (as I’m sure it was the same elsewhere). It’s not that we took it on the chin like a champ, it’s that we simply had no other alternative but to immerse ourselves in fantasy worlds, in order for school and life to be bearable (admittedly, there are probably other factors beyond school that contributed to this, at least, in my case my family/childhood wasn’t so hot).
What it did was basically make a generation of individuals who are so used to being ridiculed and socially ostracized that what’s happening now, only represents a challenge, a foe to be conquered, and I think that’s a problem that’s going to have to be tackled through more than just name calling. We’ve been called every name people can imagine, that shit won’t do anything but make them resist even further. A wholesale assault on their way of life, without attempting to correct or repair this ethos, isn’t going to end up the way they want.
Granted, I also think it’s simply a matter of different peoples fantasies butting against each other. But, I think there are more than enough examples of sexism in games that can be addressed without much resistance. The example from WoW, is fine by my. I would fully expect a female in combat/battle to be dressed like they were going into combat/battle, and not like they were going to do a strip-tease.
However, pointing out the level Sarkeesian did in Hitman, is to deny reality. In reality, there are strip clubs. In reality, there are women who strip for a living. In reality, the sex trade is a very real problem (she also points at Watch Dogs, in particular a mission where you’re trying to bring down a sex trafficking ring). In reality, the decades/eras that GTA portrays in their games, exhibit very real socio-political problems, from those eras, with an incredible attention to detail.
To be angry about that, to deny that, is to deny the past and the present. It also assumes that games, are what caused it all, which is horseshit. Strip joints, sex trafficking, sexism etc… predate gaming by hundreds if not thousands of years. Now, this isn’t me attempting to condone any of it. Merely, many of these games attempt to have a realistic/authentic setting. And to gloss those facts over, are to deny our past. It’d be like having a game set between the 1700’s and the early 1900’s in America, that didn’t even mention slavery or racism (even though racism is still an issue in the US). It’s disingenuous, and it paints a rosier picture of the actual _reality_ of life during those time frames.
Deceased
December 3, 2014 at 23:09
Enjoyed reading…
Though on the whole topic, I’m starting to feel rather “meh”…
Gamers are gamers, regardless of gender, race, language, beliefs, sexual orientation – why the f**ck do you even care who’s on the other end of the wire?!?!
On the note of discrimination IN games, such as ‘Male Protagonist’… WHY THE HELL DO YOU EVEN CARE WHAT ETHNICITY OR GENDER YOUR CHARACTER IS?! It doesn’t make any sense… Whenever I play mirrors edge, I don’t notice my avatars lack of a penis or her boobs for that matter, I DO however notice that jump that I’m fairly certain I can make to shave 0.5 seconds off my total time on the level XD
Gimmicks to make easy money are gimmicks to make easy money and people will exploit those…
Goddammit, if you’re going to be offended by every single thing on this earth… why bother?
Brian Murphy
December 3, 2014 at 23:59
Generally speaking, I am semi-meh about the whole thing. Though, as I said, there are certain examples of oddities in games that simply don’t have to be the way they are. Then again, it’s not my vision that’s behind the art direction either, so for me personally to censor anyone, I feel is a breach of their rights as a developer and artistic expression.
Still, even though you and I may be meh on the whole thing, it doesn’t mean the issue is just going to go away either. In a perfect world, the folks who look at gaming as misogny ridden, sexist cesspools, would use that energy to form their own dev studios and create IP that inspires women, or portrays the fantasies that they themselves have. I have no issue with it, I’d probably enjoy some of it, and if I didn’t, I just wouldn’t play it. That’s my right.
However, the anger and hatred that we have seen, as a result of this (from both sides, no less), I feel isn’t very constructive, and could be expressed in far better ways. If people are truly interested in solving this, then it can’t be just from one side of it. The issue is multi-faceted.
Glad you enjoyed the read though 🙂
Deceased
December 4, 2014 at 14:30
Ghhang on 🙂
… in fact hang on a second time…
This second part was also well written… 🙂
… backtracking to the first hang on…
My vent should have been at the top as it’s directed at whoever read it…
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed reading your post – and kind of continued from there 😀
also… my *.gif doesn’t work 🙁
Rags
December 4, 2014 at 09:31
Well said man, well said.
Sam Wright
December 3, 2014 at 16:06
Sometimes I think we’re all far too sensitive (and by all I mean women and men). I don’t disagree that sexism in gaming exists. I definitely don’t agree with rape threats and the like. However, I think sometimes we need to put our big girl panties on and get over ourselves (again men and women, no one get offended).
I don’t agree with all of it Gav but for the most part – good piece.
adsfsdfsdf
December 3, 2014 at 16:10
Candy Crush is not a real game, it’s an application.
Ceyber, Slayer of Trolls
December 3, 2014 at 17:36
*addiction
L337J1MB0B
December 3, 2014 at 16:58
So Gavin writes a massive blurb about how essentially Anita Sarkeesian is seeking attention…. umm why am I suddenly overcome with a sense of irony?
Charné Banger
December 3, 2014 at 17:15
As a woman and “girl gamer” this video pisses me off beyond belief. I couldn’t watch more than 1:30min.
Whats is with this!?! Why do girls have to make such an issue?
Gaming is something that has always been dominated by males, and still is. So why demand more than equality?
Who taught me to game? – My brothers
Who got me into Dota? – My boyfriend
If anything we should be thanking the males for showing us more than SIMS and Barbie dolls.
I’m a Dota 2 addict and I’ve been playing since 2007. How many pro Dota 2 girls teams do I see in the pro tournaments? NONE. Because the male Dota 2 players are just better. End of story.
Not to say that I or another girl can’t kick ass, but generally there will always be a male with a higher skill than me.
Does that make me rage or stop gaming? No. Because I’m not a moany b*tch. I game for fun and because I love gaming, not for attention or to cause trouble.
SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!
CAE9872
December 3, 2014 at 17:42
You know what would carry more weight to this particular article – both viewpoints! Sorry Gavin, I find the responses a little too flippant. I understand your intro and maybe there are a whole bunch of other issues sidelined, but if you are going to tackle her articles, it has to be on that main basis.
So I would have preferred a more enlightened response. Too many “Well I get that as well…”
So I propose someone, and not Zoe (only because she is on LG staff), from another publication, female, to counter your own points. In other words some of Sarkeesian’s points are valid, some are perhaps less so. But lets get a balanced view from both genders…and one with a bit more depth perhaps?
And you may well have a someone in Tarryn van der Byl (I assume same one from NAG?) as a prime, and enlightened, contributor to the matter. Now that would be an interesting read.
Gavin Mannion
December 4, 2014 at 07:16
Why not Zoe? I have pretty much no control over people’s opinions on this site and if Zoe put together an article going directly against this one I wouldn’t even be allowed to be the edtor of said article.
I’ve often asked people with differing opinions to write in and we can hopefully post it if the quality is there but no one has ever taken me up on that
CAE9872
December 4, 2014 at 07:47
It’s the auditor in me coming out – independence, seen to be independent, etc. No matter how hands-off you will be, she is still a member of your staff, and hence there will always be that inkling of doubt (fabricated or not!). I still think that as the editor of the site, you get to view the finished article before posting (and yes I see the irony in it!).
But hey either way, I think a balanced view from both genders would be a good read.
Touma
December 12, 2014 at 09:27
wow an actual writer basically saying that his viewpoint will be silenced if they let the other side get a chance to speak eloquently about their views. and only one comment? this should be highlighted more often. and a cause for discussion about the validity of the other side. it really does say something about the other side when you’re afraid to give the other side a voice to speak. not from fear of ridicule from your side but from the other side you’d like to give a voice.
Rags
December 3, 2014 at 17:43
This.
Hammersteyn
December 4, 2014 at 07:40
Respect
Trebzz
December 3, 2014 at 18:22
I don’t like this bitch as well.
Ghost In The Rift
December 3, 2014 at 23:28
Can i just please get a girl to game with,that’s all i ask!!!:-(
CAE9872
December 4, 2014 at 07:49
LOL
miza
December 4, 2014 at 15:43
I agree that some of these issues are rare occurances and may not be worth spending time on, if they aren’t indicative of a larger problem. The thing about living up to an expectation of your gender (or living down to) is a real problem, but I’m not sure it’s one that can easily be solved, and it’s not one inherent to video games. If I go play a Magic tournament, I feel like people expect me to be bad, so I feel pressured to be good, so I feel nervous, so I feel badly. Online where I can remain anonymous, I play much better. Studies show women do worse on math and science tests when men are around. Is this any individual man’s fault? No (unless there’s some jerk around, but that’s rare) – it’s a societal problem.
Overall, though, I feel like gaming is becoming more welcoming to women, and that Anita may be a little late in the game.
Momo
December 10, 2014 at 21:42
Maybe all the butt hurts boys and *cough* “men” should get off their asses and stop playing games. Games are for kids. I knew a guy who, after his girlfriend had a stroke delivering their baby, sat around playing games all day because well, he had a penis so of course.
Momo
December 10, 2014 at 21:43
I bathe in the man tears.
chie Chaie
January 23, 2015 at 05:58
hehe
http://www.gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/hmm-54b5b8148ae50.gif
Brigita
February 11, 2015 at 11:38
A completely trustworthy source on youtube told me about the feminist conspiracy to co-opt traditional mens attire, thus forcing men to stop wearing click here to avoid appearing female.