Home Gaming Steam Refunds are being exploited, and developers are angry

Steam Refunds are being exploited, and developers are angry

3 min read
245

Are Steam refunds broken?

Valve won a lot of brownie points last week. The biggest PC digital distributor finally baked in easy to use, seemingly fair refund support for disgruntled sales addicts and bad decision makers – allowing anyone to get all their money back, no questions asked, within two weeks of purchase and two hours of playtime. A seemingly perfect system, but one that has game developers grumpy.

Unsurprisingly too is the fact that indie developers are the ones speaking up. Steam lets anyone get a full refund if they don’t clock more than two hours of playtime on a particular title – a system that is already being abused to Val Halla and back on the indie market. Games that don’t even run the full two hours for a full playthrough are already suffering, as Beyond Gravity developer Qwiboo explained.

“Out of 18 sales 13 refunded in just last 3 days. That’s 72% of purchases. Rate of refunds before was minimal,”

Developer Matt Gambell, the single man behind RPG Tycoon, takes up a similar issue with the system. Although all for the refund policy, Gambell expressed his discomfort with the fact that a single refund in the whole of May transformed into 20 during the first week of June alone.

“Over the entirety of the 31 days of May, RPG Tycoon was refunded ONCE. In these first 7 days of June out of the 60 average units sold, over 20 of those have claimed a refund,”

And it’s not so much the fact that the games are being refunded, but rather that Gambell doesn’t know why. Steam doesn’t offer a way for customers to explain why they’ve requested a refund on a title – leaving developers confused about the intentions behind them in the first place.

“One user purchased the game 7 times and then refunded 5 of them. (Did they buy 6 copies for friends, only to find that 5 of them already had it?). I have so many questions… Could it be that they were having technical issues? Is it something that could have been solved by talking to me? Did they ACTUALLY mistakenly buy 7 copies of the same game, is that even possible?”

It really does seem like the system is being abused to offer extended periods of free gameplay, reaching far beyond the 2-hour play limit that the policy outlines. With no contingency in place to prevent multiple refunds on multiple sales of the same title to the same merchant, Steam users could essentially keep the cycle going as long as they please. An exploit which might invite more strict, third-party DRM measures from developers.

As Cliff Harris from Positech Games already suggests:

It’s expected behaviour though, because Valve is essentially allowing this to happen. It’s all good and well to expect consumers to be admirable with their new refund power, but the truth is that Valve need to employ stricter guidelines to govern it all absolutely. Without that, developers are going to start taking things into their own hands – and then we all lose.

Last Updated: June 9, 2015

245 Comments

  1. Sadly, you will always get people abusing any sort of system. People, when given the chance, will most likely act like an asshat.

    Reply

    • RustedFaith

      June 9, 2015 at 14:28

      ITs funny how the developers cry when being taken advantage of but they take advantage of their consumers on a weekly basis.

      No shits are given here …

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief's Adventure

        June 9, 2015 at 14:39

        Well, I’m not excluding dev’s here, they too act like asshats about their crappy game

        Reply

        • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

          June 9, 2015 at 17:37

          Ark devs so far have been the best devs I have seen in years. 7 Days straight working on patches and then asks the community for 24 hours of sleep.

          We said yes but hurry up and finish your sleep we need more patches!

          Ah the community. 🙂

          Reply

          • Marco A.

            June 10, 2015 at 18:40

            Considering they are raking in massive cash, I wouldn’t praise them too highly. They created an un-optimized game where you can ‘eat your own poop’ and have reached $10M in revenue.

            The ‘survivalism’ games where you actually have to live is incredibly lucrative. Probably because the majority of gamers have no actual lives.

          • Marco A.

            June 10, 2015 at 19:01

            Considering they are raking in massive cash, I wouldn’t praise them too highly. They created a game where you can ‘eat your own poop’ and have reached $10M in revenue.

            The ‘survivalism’ games where you actually have to live is incredibly lucrative. Probably because the majority of gamers have no actual lives and this is being exploited massively, its sad really.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            June 11, 2015 at 00:27

            Dayz Devs made just as much money or even more. If we get a peep from them in a week it is a miracle. Rust devs were silent for months on end. Stomping lands devs ran away with the money.

            I stand by my post.

          • Bloody Macbeth

            April 16, 2016 at 00:20

            Being a gamer is a life. Its just not the life YOU would of chosen.

      • Marco A.

        June 10, 2015 at 18:37

        No one should take advantage of anyone else.

        Reply

  2. Admiral Chief's Adventure

    June 9, 2015 at 12:36

    Unfortunately, this is a bit of a double-edged sword, with examples like above showing the one edge. On the other side, it forces people to make proper games

    Reply

    • Stosta

      June 9, 2015 at 12:51

      If you’re game doesn’t suck, chances are people will play it for longer than 2 hours. I have wasted too much money paying for some generic crap done in unity claiming to be a game. Hopefully this weeds out such copy-paste “developers”. But on the otherhand, at least make a mandatory field in which people can explain further their desire for a refund, so that issues can actually be addressed!

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief's Adventure

        June 9, 2015 at 12:57

        Aye, agreed.

        Also:
        *your

        😛

        Reply

        • Stosta

          June 9, 2015 at 15:54

          Are you not a game? Oh wait, you’re(?) not… O.o

          Reply

  3. Teddypig

    June 9, 2015 at 12:39

    “developers are going to start taking things into their own hands”

    What are they going to start breaking EU law now? Valve did not do this to be nice to customers they did it to follow EU consumer protection laws to the letter and not be vunerable to lawsuits against them. These are consumer protections required by law so if the developers want to open themselves up to lawsuits… good on them! Let the idiots do it then.

    Reply

    • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

      June 9, 2015 at 13:00

      Absolutely, on the head!

      Reply

    • RustedFaith

      June 9, 2015 at 14:28

      100% correct

      Reply

    • h3d

      June 9, 2015 at 19:43

      False. They already followed the law because Section 19 of the EU directive gives them an out.

      Here’s the quote from section 19, because I guarantee that you were too lazy to research this yourself., otherwise you wouldn’t have made such an asinine statement.

      “Similarly to contracts for the supply of water, gas or electricity, where they are not put up for sale in a limited volume or set quantity, or of district heating, contracts for digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium should be classified, for the purpose of this Directive, neither as sales contracts nor as service contracts. For such contracts, the consumer should have a right of withdrawal unless he has consented to the beginning of the performance of the contract during the withdrawal period and has acknowledged that he will consequently lose the right to withdraw from the contract”

      Steam altered it’s TOS and pre-purchase agreements to make the user aware that by buying the game, they are also forfeiting the right for a withdrawal. They’ve been leagal in the EU for a while now….

      Reply

      • Teddypig

        June 9, 2015 at 21:03

        Wow you sure are a redi-tard there don’t hurt yourself… obviously they were not selling water gas or electricity… they were selling digital goods handled specifically by a speific set of EU laws. They tried to get around those laws by doing this…

        “By clicking ‘Purchase’ you agree that Valve provides you immediate access to digital content as soon as you complete your purchase, without waiting the 14-day withdrawal period. Therefore, you expressly waive your right to withdraw from this purchase.”

        I bet they just found out from their lawyers that trick was not going to hold up to review legally so they dumped all that and followed the rules.

        Reply

        • h3d

          June 9, 2015 at 21:19

          Did you not read it?

          “..contracts for digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium should be classified..”

          Section 19 CLEARLY dictates that games sales are covered by the rules to advise the customer to waive their right.

          “I bet they just found out from their lawyers that trick was not going to
          work legally so they dumped all that and followed the rules.”

          Except that they’re not following your made-up rules. Where are 2 hour windows in your version of EU’s directives? Where is Valve’s justification for banning users from using refunds if they feel they are abusing the system in your version of the EU’s directives? Can you quote your version of the EU directives for me, since clearly your imaginary world is different from reality.

          More over, Secition 19’s opening line clearly specifies digital games:

          ” Digital content means data which are produced and
          supplied in digital form, such as computer programs,
          applications, games, music, videos or texts, irrespective
          of whether they are accessed through downloading or
          streaming, from a tangible medium or through any
          other means.”

          Just admit that you’re getting exposed. You so completely screwed up that you think it’s impossible that Valve did this under any other circumstances other than being forced to. That’s totally and utterly false. You ‘bet’ is terrible and you should feel bad.

          Reply

          • Teddypig

            June 9, 2015 at 21:31

            Are you just tragically dense or what?

            The major change in this policy was to meet thew EU’s 14 day return policy. There are no Murican laws I know of that say “14” anything so um yeah you are clueless.The “2 hour” deal and “banning users” for abuse are part of what they can do anyway so they are doing it. These minor quibbles you want to base your entire argument on are silly.

            If the EU says 14 days and they changed it to 14 days it seems pretty clear to me but you are the redi-tard go ahead and argue whatever. You are the one playing the fool.

          • h3d

            June 9, 2015 at 21:34

            “If the EU says 14 days and they changed it to 14 days it seems pretty
            clear to me but you are the redi-tard go ahead and argue whatever.”

            They’re using at as model. Because 14 days is good enough for the EU, it’s good enough for them. It’s nothing about the EU forcing them due to previously being illegal. That, agian, is false. Steam refunds isn’t there to meet the EU laws, it’s basing their terms off of the EU laws. Completely different, and it’s really who who is unable to grasp that. The 2 hour rules, abuse banning, no refunds on gifts, ect are all perfect examples because they’re examples where “14 days” is not 14 days. If Valve had to follow the EU law (which they are), then those would be illegal exemptions. They’re not illegal. At all.

            Your logic is literally “hurrdurr 14=14. Valve must have been illegal!” That is false.

          • Teddypig

            June 9, 2015 at 21:37

            Your the one picking fights in the comment section of LazyGamer go find something better to do with yourself. I suggest Witcher 3… oh, and if you don’t like it you can get a refund now.

          • h3d

            June 9, 2015 at 21:39

            You’re the one that’s unable to defend your position. I’m not picking fights, I’m showing you the truth, a truth that you’re not willing to accept. It is you who’s unable to accept and grasp the truth that your logic is misguided and thus you are misinforming everyone else here.

            This is no fight. This is you, Teddypig, being a stubborn jerk in the face of facts. How hard it is to say that you were incorrect, when you clearly are?

          • Teddypig

            June 9, 2015 at 21:45

            Well, I will say you are not a lawyer and probably need to stop practicing law online… but I will admit you are just another fanboy gaming loser in this community I am coming to hate and move along then. Go back to pre-ordering and paying for freemium games.

          • h3d

            June 9, 2015 at 21:49

            “and probably need to stop practicing law online..”

            So, you’re exempt when you said “What are they going to start breaking EU law now?” Considering how wrong you are, It’s you who needs to stop playing armchair lawyer. Isn’t that what got you into this mess in the first place, being an armchair lawyer..being wrong about what’s illegal and being wrong about Valve’s motives?

            “but I will admit you are just another fanboy gaming loser in this community I am coming to hate and move along then.”

            What? Get that strawman outta here.

            “Go back to pre-ordering and paying for freemium games.”

            More lame strawman. How does that have any relevancy to Steam’s legal standing in the EU before refunds.

            Again, you’re covering up for being wrong. Making statements up doesn’t detract from being wrong.

          • OrderJesse

            March 19, 2016 at 23:51

            Settle down fellas, it’s not just EU law, Value covered their ass due to the Australasian markets which have more stringent consumer laws (Australia and New Zealand to be specific). Lawsuits have been filled in Australia over Values law breaking business practices over their digital products, which is one reason why they NOW have a refund policy.

    • Gamer Pup

      June 19, 2015 at 22:06

      Theyre going to start making use of DRM more heavily as a punishment. Which is funny to me, because it’s not like gamers will stop buying anyway. If anything, this will only make pirating a much stronger hobby. These devs are idiots and will never learn.

      Reply

      • Colin Mcsperritt

        June 28, 2015 at 08:35

        Can’t make a game longer than 2 hours? Put DRM on. Get pirated.
        Can’t make a game that’s at least good in the first 2 hours? DRM. Pirated.

        Now there are some legitimate concerns in this thread and there are means by which Steam can alleviate them but DRM is about as much a solution as taking a flamethrower to a burn wound.

        Reply

  4. Blood Emperor Trevor

    June 9, 2015 at 12:40

    So they don’t know why people are requesting refunds, but it’s being exploited. Refunds weren’t easy to obtain previously, and it’s shocking they’ve gone up now that it’s possible. Fuck me, it must suck being a developer & now customers have the right to return games & a simple way to do it. All those ungrateful, exploitative bastards! BAN THIS SICK FILTH FOR THE SAKE OF THE DEVELOPERS! DOWN WITH CUSTOMER RIGHTS!

    Reply

    • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

      June 9, 2015 at 13:28

      Haha. Excellent.

      Reply

    • RinceTheElfRoot

      June 9, 2015 at 13:35

      Down with your rights!

      Reply

  5. Hammersteyn

    June 9, 2015 at 12:40

    Well it’s much easier to demo a game this way instead of pirating one

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief's Adventure

      June 9, 2015 at 12:40

      Arrrrrrrrrrr

      Reply

      • Deceased

        June 9, 2015 at 13:15

        D’you guys know where the whole “Arrrr” thing comes from with pirates?

        It’s something along these lines:

        Crew-Mate 1: “We be taking over your booty lass”
        Crew-Mate 2: “Are*”

        XD

        Reply

        • Admiral Chief's Adventure

          June 9, 2015 at 13:23

          Hah

          Reply

        • RinceTheElfRoot

          June 9, 2015 at 13:35

          HAHAHA

          Reply

        • Admiral Chief's Adventure

          June 9, 2015 at 13:44

          Do you know what a pirate’s favourite letter is?

          Reply

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:44

            P?

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:46

            C

            A pirate’s first love is always the C

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:46

            (yes, saw the issue, and corrected)

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:52

            Ah, ok, don’t laugh, but the first thing that came to mind was R

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:53

            xD huehuehue

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:54

            LOL

  6. Hammersteyn

    June 9, 2015 at 12:45

    I think the refund system is a good idea because more people will take a chance on your game then ever before. I bet sales go up even if refunds do. Those that truly enjoy the game will keep it. Yes there are those that exploit the system but surely Steam can limit the number of refunds you can request? Either learn to live with it or stop making games for PC

    Reply

    • Pariah

      June 9, 2015 at 12:48

      2 simple solutions:
      1) Limit refunds to 1 per game except for exceptional circumstances (these would be manually handled by a customer service rep).
      2) Make better games.

      Problem solved.

      Reply

      • Hammersteyn

        June 9, 2015 at 12:50

        The whole refund system is automated I bet…

        Reply

        • Pariah

          June 9, 2015 at 12:51

          Add a check. “If {Game refunded = 1} deny:refund”

          Reply

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 12:53

            It’s too much work for Valve, they’ll have to debug it…

          • Hammersteyn

            June 9, 2015 at 12:54

            Three checks?You know how they feel about the number 3…

          • Ragnar The Vengeful

            June 9, 2015 at 13:36

            All they need is a notification:”The system is down due to a resonance cascade, please retry your refund in two hours.”

          • Hammersteyn

            June 9, 2015 at 13:43

            Makes sense. It also makes sense that the period is two hours and not three XD

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:44

            Oh you!

          • Ragnar The Vengeful

            June 9, 2015 at 13:51

            Yeah, who knew that the half-life of a game is only two hours.

          • Hammersteyn

            June 9, 2015 at 14:03

            lol

      • Bagel

        June 9, 2015 at 13:20

        (handled by a customer service rep)

        Did you forget about the diretide shenanigans?
        Volvo’s customer service is shocking. at best.

        It has to be automated (unfortunately)
        unless they hire more people.

        Reply

    • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

      June 9, 2015 at 12:50

      I believe that every user has the right to a refund, but and this is a big one, if there are good grounds for it, for instance, if there is a malfunction with a product it should be revoked, but if there is nothing wrong with it but you are left unsatisfied with the product, the feedback would be of great importance, it’s as simple as that…

      Reply

    • HvR

      June 9, 2015 at 13:55

      Thought it will be a given, played more than two hours or refund once and refund is blocked for the game unless on special request.

      Bad system design by Steam.

      Reply

  7. Greylingad[CNFRMD]

    June 9, 2015 at 12:45

    Oigh… This is sick…. Why does the human race always end up trying to resemble the male reproductive system? I believe a large part of this has to do with the terms and conditions with regards to the refunds, the model would require a feedback form that has to be evaluated before the refund can occur, otherwise you’ll just end up strangling the developers, I expected more from Valves’ pre emptive thinking…

    Reply

  8. Viking Of Science

    June 9, 2015 at 12:48

    I’ll just leave this here: https://youtu.be/k1-0dgDsCtw

    Reply

    • Blood Emperor Trevor

      June 9, 2015 at 12:51

      His Hatred parody made me giggle.

      Reply

      • Hammersteyn

        June 9, 2015 at 12:53

        He almost reminds me of Meatloaf, back when he had long hair.

        Reply

        • HvR

          June 9, 2015 at 13:56

          The lovechild of Meatloaf and Penn Jillette

          Reply

    • ThisIsAFakeAccount

      September 14, 2015 at 00:05

      His acting was better then the real voice actor.

      Reply

  9. Bagel

    June 9, 2015 at 12:56

    Did you honestly expect differently? When we have our press accepting handouts to give something a good review, half assed broken games on release.

    The fuck you think would happen?
    If i go to Game and get a 1000W microwave, and i get home and its only a 500W microwave i have every right to refund my product. Regardless of what Game says. Now why cant we expect the same from games?

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief's Adventure

      June 9, 2015 at 12:57

      Damn fine example there!

      Reply

      • Bagel

        June 9, 2015 at 13:03

        Shittest example. but the point remains.

        If its a good product people will play the game, and not refund it

        Rules should be changed on games where the brunt of the playtime is under 2 hours. But with the current climate around how games are marketed and how certain publications get their hands greased, im glad this is happening.

        Reply

        • Admiral Chief's Adventure

          June 9, 2015 at 13:03

          The point was well driven home, hence my comment 🙂

          Reply

        • Hammersteyn

          June 9, 2015 at 13:10

          Thing is when you take a microwave back you can speak to a person and tell him “Listen tjop, this thing here is 500MW not 1000MW” With Steam you click a button. They need to put people in charge to handle the requests for refunds

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:13

            I’d be flippen die moer in if that happened

          • Bagel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:14

            Totally agree, hence why i said probably not the best example.

            But as we know valve has a staff of say 300 people. Do we suggest the community get involved (It will break the system)

            I dont know how to fix it tbh.

          • Ottokie

            June 9, 2015 at 13:27

            500MW…that microwave will put us in eternal load shedding forever xD

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:33

            LOOOOOOOOL, well spotted

          • Ottokie

            June 9, 2015 at 13:33

            Was wondering how that one passed right by you 😛

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:34

            Yeah, hah. He makes so many mistakes, some are bound to slip past

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:33

            Baked potato in 0.5 sec

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:33

            Coal

          • Ottokie

            June 9, 2015 at 13:34

            2 min Noodles in 0.0000001 sec….A NEW WORLD RECORD!

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:34

            Trevor must love that

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:34

            Wow. Yes. Trevor could make his steak perfectly in only one minute.

          • Lord Chaos

            June 9, 2015 at 13:34

            So Blood Emperor Trevor’s Microwave…

          • HvR

            June 9, 2015 at 13:58

            Load shedding SOLVED

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:43

            Baked the known universe in 1.0 sec.

          • Hammersteyn

            June 9, 2015 at 13:34

            rofl not my example

          • Ottokie

            June 9, 2015 at 13:35

            The first example used “watts” not “megawatts” xD At least you gave me a good giggle on this very demoerin day I’m having 😛

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:40

            Aye

          • Hammersteyn

            June 9, 2015 at 13:44

            oh right

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:44

            YOU! YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF THE LOADSHEDDING STARTING AGAIN!

          • Hammersteyn

            June 9, 2015 at 13:45

            But I don’t own a XBOX One 🙁

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:46

            LOOOL, ok, I’ll let it slide Mr MW

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:41

            True. But you misquoted then

          • RinceTheElfRoot

            June 9, 2015 at 13:40

            Agreed. It’s open to abuse the the tards out there.

          • HvR

            June 9, 2015 at 13:58

            All online retailer purchases I press a button, they fetch it and I get my money back.

    • RustedFaith

      June 9, 2015 at 14:40

      Amen brother

      Reply

  10. Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

    June 9, 2015 at 13:00

    Of course, you guys know where I stand, so I won’t bore you with another 20 page, Banana thesis. I’ll just keep it short and simple, I’m pro-consumer, baby! Therefore, I support the ability to have refunds on Steam. Hopefully, Steam won’t listen to the whiners, stick to their guns and inch ever so closely to become more consumer-friendly.

    Reply

    • Blood Emperor Trevor

      June 9, 2015 at 13:04

      But think of the developers, Jim! THINK OF THE DEVELOPERS! If they can’t shit out some game the equivalent of KFC zinger wings post-eating AND then have to refund the suckers who bought it in the first place how will they survive? We owe those noble freedom fighters and artists so much!

      Reply

      • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

        June 9, 2015 at 13:38

        All that caught my eye in your comment was KFC, I haven’t actually read it.
        Yum.

        Reply

        • Blood Emperor Trevor

          June 9, 2015 at 13:43

          You may want to, I only mentioned it because of what happens AFTER you eat it. 😉

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:43

            I’d like to take the afters back to them and demand a refund

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:44

            :/

      • RinceTheElfRoot

        June 9, 2015 at 13:41

        Yes!

        Reply

        • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

          June 9, 2015 at 13:45

          That’s all you ever say to him, isn’t it?

          Reply

    • Hammersteyn

      June 9, 2015 at 13:06

      I wish we could do the same with Uwe Bolls movies.

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief's Adventure

        June 9, 2015 at 13:07

        *Boll’s

        Reply

        • Hammersteyn

          June 9, 2015 at 13:10

          sies

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:10

            xD

      • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

        June 9, 2015 at 13:07

        Poor Uwe, a misunderstood genius…

        Reply

      • Admiral Chief's Adventure

        June 9, 2015 at 13:07

        Aye

        Reply

      • Admiral Chief's Adventure

        June 9, 2015 at 13:08

        And don’t even claim the already edited maneuver!
        😛

        Reply

      • Blood Emperor Trevor

        June 9, 2015 at 13:09

        Except Rampage, that’s actually pretty decent.

        Reply

        • Hammersteyn

          June 9, 2015 at 13:09

          Yeah, I’ll give him that

          Reply

      • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

        June 9, 2015 at 13:09

        Zat poor man… It is sutch a pity he didn’t get to do Rampaige sree…

        Reply

  11. Lord Chaos

    June 9, 2015 at 13:11

    Awww, shame.

    Here’s an idea, create better games. That lasts longer than 2 hours.

    Reply

    • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

      June 9, 2015 at 13:12

      Lord Chaos went straight for the jugular!

      Reply

      • Lord Chaos

        June 9, 2015 at 13:15

        Day I’m having. Even kaked out a dev architect today. O_o

        Reply

        • Blood Emperor Trevor

          June 9, 2015 at 13:23

          I completed an employee survey today & one of the questions asked what’s the best thing about working here. My answer was, “At least the instant coffee is free, for the moment.”

          Reply

          • Lord Chaos

            June 9, 2015 at 13:24

            You get coffee? I have to bring my own in. 🙁

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:26

            I bring my own, because what they serve here is NOT coffee!

          • Bagel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:27

            its mud with milk and sugar right? i know the feel.

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:32

            I think the mud tastes better. Life is too short for crappy coffee

          • Lord Chaos

            June 9, 2015 at 13:33

            Lol.
            Buy Jacobs on special, lasts really long. Or for the same price buy 6 “coffees” from the canteen.

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:42

            MEH, I only drink Douwe Egberts and those cappucino sachets from Nestle.

            I build one of those, and dose it with some extra strong DE for MOAR KICK

    • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

      June 9, 2015 at 13:19

      You have a great point, but how would a developer/indie developer know what they could do better? I’m not criticising your point, I’m just trying to elaborate…(Personally, if they’ve ever played a game, they should at least know what is crap or what is good)

      Reply

      • Lord Chaos

        June 9, 2015 at 13:21

        Games like Desktop Dungeons or FTL.
        This war of mine, Don’t starve. The list goes on.

        Reply

        • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

          June 9, 2015 at 13:29

          My opinion about this whole thing is, instead of buying the game and then begging for a refund, allow a Demo section and make it compulsory for developers (still keeping the refund side of things) and once you’ve evaluated the Demo, you can decide whether you want the full game or not…This reminds me of an era that is quite literally a few decades ago….

          Reply

          • Lord Chaos

            June 9, 2015 at 13:32

            Steam gives “Demos” on a regular basis. Games being free for the weekend only,

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:41

            They do, but I think it could be more beneficial for devs to release demos in parralel with their main releases, anyway, I know what you mean…

          • Lord Chaos

            June 9, 2015 at 13:46

            Agreed. But it seems demos are dead.

    • R4ziel

      June 9, 2015 at 13:28

      Just to add a comment to this, I don’t think 2 hours is enough to properly rate a game to see if its playable. I dont agree with it being exploited but that is human nature for you.

      My example for this would be ARK : Survival Evolved. This game is bloody brilliant even for an EA game. It has more content than most AAA games and gameplay is excellent.
      The issue however is that it doesnt run very smooth because its not properly optimized in its Early access state. Although the devs are completely open to the community and aware of the problem, some people will just keep bashing. If I had to only play 2 hours of ARK, I would have gotten nowhere, and been left with a feeling that it could be better optimized and I would wait to get it again later.

      That scenario is of a brilliant game being returned because Frikkie can’t run it at 60FPS in 1080P on his Sony calculator, and now rushes to the refund button. Is this fair towards the consumer, suppose so yes. But the developer struggles with budgets and money coming and going, making it even harder for them to make the game better.

      My 2cents in this convo

      PS : Look at Ark : Survival Evolved, brilliant game, super fun and honestly worth every penny even in Early access form.

      Reply

      • Bagel

        June 9, 2015 at 13:31

        I would agree, if Ark was not an EA title. EA dont need your early access cash. Smaller dev houses, yes ofc. But EA? naaaaaa m8

        Reply

        • R4ziel

          June 9, 2015 at 13:33

          Yes fair enough, i get your point. Although they still need to pay their people. I’d rather pay Ark’s dev team than COD’s marketing team (also doubling up as devs)

          Reply

          • Bagel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:36

            True, and yes i would buy this game as Early Access.

            I bought DayZ, and have questioned that purchase ever since.

          • R4ziel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:40

            I also bought Dayz, haven’t reached 5 hours yet. Crap game, even crappier engine.
            Since then I have been very weary of early access, and I only bought ARK on Sunday, already have 20 hours in it and loving the crap out of it. There is more content in Ark than Dayz, H1z! and rust combined at the moment, and we get even more every day.

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:41

            7 Days to Die was quite a bargain for me at Early Access. Spent 92 hours on it. The Forest too. Great Early Access game that I bought right at the start.
            I will need to actually try out ARK before I spend money on it though. Not convinced.

          • R4ziel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:44

            Ive played almost 200 hours in 7 days to die, love that to bits. But it gets boring once you have an impenetrable base and can just pick zombies off from the walls.

            Ark is going to take you 200 hours just to settle properly and feel somewhat secure XD

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:47

            Then I HAVE to ask you, since you’ve played it a bit now. What is up with the dragon? It’s pretty much the only reason why I haven’t bought the game (the generic oversized scorpions aside)

          • Bagel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:49

            dude Dragons are dinosaurs too.
            You cant just exclude Dragons

            You are such a Dragonist

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:50

            Haha!

          • Bagel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:41

            Ive played alot more than you in terms of DayZ, and i agree, after months of supporting dean and his actions, and in the current state it runs in, DayZ would actually be the perfect candidate for why refunds are necessary.

      • Lord Chaos

        June 9, 2015 at 13:31

        I am actually really interested in it. And for early access, I’d never do the refunds, but I have found countless games where I’m 30 minutes in and already thinking: “What the Fuck is this shit”.

        *Looks at Alien:CM

        Reply

        • R4ziel

          June 9, 2015 at 13:32

          Yes for those games I agree, legit case you make there. But people will be asshats no matter what you do really.
          Anyway, Ark is excellent, having more fun in the 20h of game play here than Ive had in 1000+ hours of Arma

          Reply

          • Lord Chaos

            June 9, 2015 at 13:36

            *Adds to Steam wishlist.

            People will be asshats no matter what gets implemented. Paid for workshop items proved that.

          • Bagel

            June 9, 2015 at 13:38

            is it tho? The whole flagship set valve used on those mods was completely broken. literally broken. You cant expect people to pay for that?

      • Admiral Chief's Adventure

        June 9, 2015 at 13:31

        OHHHH, you meant EARLY ACCESS, not that other crappy EA DLC fest?

        😛

        Reply

      • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

        June 9, 2015 at 13:32

        I’m still not sold on ARK. There’s a dragon in there.

        Reply

      • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

        June 9, 2015 at 13:40

        Hahahaha!!!! 60FPS 1080P…Sony Calculator! Hahaha!!! That is very true! I had a similar discussion the other day with someone, w.r.t. The Witcher 3, where the dude was k@kking himself because of the graphics downgrade debacle, going back and forth between the PC and console version…. In short, he has a medium range, previous gen nVidia card, which firstly means he can’t necessarily run the game on ultra graphics, then complains about missing details, now first off, it looks amazing, whether it be a small island somewhere remote or a live open sprawling city, it is amazing, if the game was built to look like that of the E3 trailers etc. the only people that would be able to run it would be the few lucky sods that have managed to get their hands on 4 GTX Titan X’s (that’s if the game was coded to perform like it did at the E3 demo), so in a sense, complaining about a game not looking like it could’ve, and then complaining about frame rate drops is as productive as a match in a paper factory…. Anyway, my rant is over…

        Reply

        • R4ziel

          June 9, 2015 at 13:43

          I understand why they did the GFX downgrade, they wanted more than 2 sales, and it makes the game run better so what the hell is there to complain about.

          The funny thing is, ARK looks like your playing Crisis with Dinosaurs, the world is fantastically beautiful, breathtaking sometimes, but people complain that their i3 laptops only get 15 FPS and that is retarded because they can play pacman at 45 FPS on medium gfx. I hate people who read “Early access”, see all the dev posts saying they are working on it (at least a patch a day for optimization) and its been out a week, then rant about Framerates.

          Reply

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:50

            Ja, nee… That pisses me off to the extent that I just skip past the comments… I was looking at an app on my phone this morning and a guy rated it 1 star with a sentence to the likes of “I have no idea how this app works so it’s broken” and that, there, ooohhh, it grinds my tits….

        • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

          June 9, 2015 at 13:43

          Ag fk man. Sh!t like that gets me so upset.
          Just enjoy the bloody game. Who cares about the graphics downgrade? It’s a good game. I’ve had more fun on little 2D games than I did on “AAA” titles with incredible graphics.

          Reply

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:48

            Exactly! Unfortunately, not everyone sees it that way though, which makes me very sad…

        • Blood Emperor Trevor

          June 9, 2015 at 13:50

          Just the other day I called my sister to come have a look at a sunset in W3, and complained bitterly about the poor leaf textures on the trees. So ugly.

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:53

            Those sunsets really are something magnificent!

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:54

            It’s beaaauutiful.

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:55

            The weather effects are really something else. I can see in that STALKER mod I play, that they tried fixing the weather, which is still awesome, but Witcher 3’s weather!!!

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:56

            How many times have I just stopped and stared in that game… really a masterpiece…

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:57

            Like Skyrim with mods
            Only ten times prettier

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:58

            With GWENT!

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:59

            You know what I do miss about Skyrim….

            Nothing

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:59

            I just miss the FUS RO DAH and watching things flail around

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 14:00

            One word
            Aard

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 14:07

            Not a word, a sign.

            I just like the way FUS RO DAH results in that magnificent show

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 14:10

            Aard is a word, denoting a sign. 😉

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 14:27

            It is not that AARD to FUS about the RO when you are DAH

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 14:21

            Yep! Nothing, nothing at all….

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            June 9, 2015 at 13:57

            Me too. Even when the in-game weather is crappy it’s still so damn good looking.

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:58

            It has been quite some time that I’ve enjoyed a game that was so hyped about, and it living up to that hype!

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 13:59

            it living yo. Fo shizzle ;D

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 14:00

            Yep! What’s amazing is that it happens every single time, I find myself running the game and when I’ve gone from one area to the other, chasing some side quest, I lose myself in it… Every single time the game grabs me by the eyeballs and goes “Does this look okay?” Like a wife with a new set of lingerie….

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 14:01

            Velen is really flat though. I’m enjoying Skellige more perharps. It’s just nice to scale a mountain and look down over the entire area.

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            June 9, 2015 at 14:04

            I was starting to understand what you were saying, but then you lost me. #foreverSP

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 14:21

            I’m sorry, like Triss going “Does this look okay?” in nothing but her underwear…

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            June 9, 2015 at 14:28

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 14:31

            Okay… Keira? maybe?

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            June 9, 2015 at 13:55

            I’m more concerned about the wind, if it was gushing at that speed it would mean that Geralt would be galloping sideways on Roach….

      • RustedFaith

        June 9, 2015 at 14:57

        Look at Evolve, Aliens: Colonial Marines, Sim City 4, Watch Dogs, Asassins Creed Unity for recent examples of the developers fucking over gamers.

        You are aware that if you buy a game in a store and it doesnt run on your pc you are allowed to return it. When you buy a Steering Wheel and is incompatible with your usb controller you get a refund.

        Why shouldnt frikkie noy be allowed to return a game thats advertised will run on minimum requirement but when firing it up it cant even hit 20fps on low on a minimal requirement pc.

        Developers have been fucking gamers over for far to long now and thus this policy by steam to start allowing it. Not to mention that EU law dictated that Steam had to implement it or close shop in the EU “drum roll” because you know companies abused people back in the day without any recourse so they implemented consumer protection laws.

        If the developers doesnt like it then they shouldnt have fucked all the gamers for the last decade with sub par console port games or blatant false advertising …

        I say fuck them let them burn. Any studio that closes due to the refund policy will be deserved.

        I cant wait to see the amount of refunds on the new COD expansion out later this year.

        Reply

  12. Wyzak

    June 9, 2015 at 13:16

    Rate of refunds before was minimal – because it was impossible, not necessarily because your product is so good…

    Reply

  13. Captain JJ the_scarrrr

    June 9, 2015 at 13:27

    People will always abuse the system. Personally I don’t care if there’s a refund system or not. You make your purchase. Live with it. PC games have never been refundable anyway, even the physical copies.

    Reply

    • RustedFaith

      June 9, 2015 at 15:06

      You can get a refund on a physical copy btw … on PC atleast. Not sure about console scrubs.

      Reply

      • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

        June 9, 2015 at 15:20

        Not when I was growing up. That was how they stopped piracy back then. Not that it was effective.

        Reply

  14. Ottokie

    June 9, 2015 at 13:30

    You can always leave it to people to find a way to destroy anything good.

    Reply

  15. Captain JJ the_scarrrr

    June 9, 2015 at 13:33

    I wish I could get my money back for Planetary Annihilation and rather buy ten Total Annihilations for friends.

    Reply

  16. RinceTheElfRoot

    June 9, 2015 at 13:34

    What do you expect when you have a culture of people who have more than 100 times the games they haven’t played than they have? If the game doesn’t grab them hook line and sinker in the first 5 seconds they have their backlog to work through and a refunded game to buy another 😛

    Reply

    • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

      June 9, 2015 at 13:36

      Jealousy makes you nasty

      Reply

    • Blood Emperor Trevor

      June 9, 2015 at 13:40

      …he said selling his games second hand without even a hint of irony. 😀

      Reply

      • RinceTheElfRoot

        June 9, 2015 at 13:42

        I never sell my games crazy boy! That’s OvG 😛 I keep mine, always have. What else keeps me warm at night?

        Reply

        • Blood Emperor Trevor

          June 9, 2015 at 13:46

          The answer to that is so obvious that I suspect a trap. :/

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief's Adventure

            June 9, 2015 at 13:49

            OOOH OOOOOH OOOOOOOH I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW!

          • RinceTheElfRoot

            June 9, 2015 at 13:53

            XD

          • RinceTheElfRoot

            June 9, 2015 at 13:53

            You win! HAHAHA! First time for everything… BOOM!

  17. Joe Black

    June 9, 2015 at 13:48

    meh… not abuse. Some of the early access offerings available – That’s abuse!

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief's Adventure

      June 9, 2015 at 13:48

      ^This

      Reply

    • Matthew Holliday

      June 9, 2015 at 14:30

      early access is great in principle, games that would otherwise not be completed are being given a chance. games like subnautica, day z etc.

      but keep an early access game in developement for too long and it grows stale, like day z and subnautica…
      give early access to a game that is broken and has zero features, with no certainty that the game will ever amount to anything, that is blatant extortion.

      Reply

  18. Captain JJ the_scarrrr

    June 9, 2015 at 13:49

    There are, however, indie games going for $1 or $2 that are only 3 hours long. What about those guys? It would obviously be unfair to them.

    Reply

    • Blood Emperor Trevor

      June 9, 2015 at 13:53

      How many people will really apply for a refund on a short,cheap game they enjoyed? Sure, it’s possible, but I bet most wouldn’t.

      Reply

      • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

        June 9, 2015 at 13:54

        The people about which this article is will. And it seems there are a lot of them. :/

        Reply

        • Blood Emperor Trevor

          June 9, 2015 at 14:03

          All the complaints from devs in this article aren’t based on any facts. They’re assuming guilt.

          Reply

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 14:06

            True.
            I just think the general nature of people is not favourable, and I really enjoy some of those 2 to 3 hour games. They deserve their games to be paid for and permanently owned.

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            June 9, 2015 at 14:08

            So do I. I don’t really see myself returning anything for refund anyway, I’m a lot more circumspect with my purchases now.

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 14:10

            Me too. I live with my purchases.
            I spend long enough deciding on them.

          • RustedFaith

            June 9, 2015 at 15:15

            Wish I could return Evolve still sour about how they suckered me, unfortunately did more than 2 hours 🙁

          • Matthew Holliday

            June 9, 2015 at 16:05

            purchasing evolve was a buyers mistake though. being butthurt with the devs for not living up to expectations should not be a dev problem.
            making a dev problem would be not buying it in the first place.

            accidentally buying the wrong game, i could understand, i bought deadlight instead of dead island once by mistake and wish i could have refunded that.

            refunds should be kept for defective products and accidents, not “lemme try this game out for an hour and return it.” refunds are not for demoing games.

          • RustedFaith

            June 9, 2015 at 16:38

            The beta was great! I didnt realize that they would release the beta as the full game …

          • Matthew Holliday

            June 10, 2015 at 09:11

            not all that different, open to interperetation.
            no need to be a dick.

        • RustedFaith

          June 9, 2015 at 15:10

          20 + 13 + 5 = 38 (Sample of 2 games that is shit anyway compared to how many games on steam?)

          Thats hardly allot …. unless you have other figures to work of.

          So because 38 people are abusing the refund system we must bring it under scrutiny out of 2 million average users connected to steam at any given time ? I dont even think that’s 0.1% of the community.

          Reply

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 9, 2015 at 15:19

            Haha. Funny

          • RustedFaith

            June 9, 2015 at 16:37

            Yeh sorry was a bit grumpy when I replied all I was trying to say is that there is 1 example of a guy abusing the system. Simple fix would be to limit it to1 refund per game and the problem is fixed.

            The only issue I see is the developers that have short games of only 2 hours worth of gameplay which needs to be looked at.

          • Captain JJ the_scarrrr

            June 10, 2015 at 07:15

            That is true I suppose. Short games can be looked at.
            Though paying $2 for something you play for 2.5 hours ($0.80 an hour) compared to $50 for something you play for 22hours ($2.27 an hour) makes it look differently. Haha, okay, now I’m trying to quantify subjectivity. Guilty. 🙂
            I’m 100% with you there on the one-refund-per-game thing, though. I don’t know how that wasn’t in the original model from the start.

          • Matthew Holliday

            June 9, 2015 at 15:59

            i think its the 13 out of 18 sales being refunded stat that is relevant.
            not the big picture.

          • RustedFaith

            June 9, 2015 at 16:31

            Yup 13 being the amount of refunds that he specified and 20 and the 1 guy that did 5.

            I was replying to the following comment

            “The people about which this article is will. And it seems there are a lot of them. :/”

      • RinceTheElfRoot

        June 9, 2015 at 13:56

        Well Umar is fudging cheap?

        Reply

      • Alessandro Barbosa

        June 9, 2015 at 18:05

        That’s kind of exactly what’s happening

        Reply

        • Blood Emperor Trevor

          June 9, 2015 at 18:51

          You do not know that. You have devs saying that’s what happening, also without knowing that. They’re assuming every return is an exploit. Guilty until proven innocent? Not buying it, excuse the pun. 😉

          Reply

  19. Matthew Holliday

    June 9, 2015 at 14:27

    impliment a new system thats controversial, and it will be abused, fact.
    this is the internet, an internet where people only pay for games begrudgingly, little to zero faith in developers with piracy proving to be too tempting of an alternative for many.

    steams whole premise is that it makes online gaming easy, introduce a method where you can download a game and patch it, hassle free, then copy the game files, get a refund and crack it yourselves, obviously that system is going to be abused.

    my question is, do these stats people are throwing out, amount to a sales increase aswell? if a company gets 15% more refund requests, have their sales increased by 15%?

    i honestly dont see the point in a refund system, refunds should be in place for a defective product, not for “i am unhappy with the game, money back please”. buying the game was THEIR mistake, THEIR choice, it has nothing to do with the developers, they should not suffer because of buthurt users.

    Reply

  20. Wraith

    June 9, 2015 at 14:27

    Think they just need to add additional validation. One refund per game, per customer. Otherwise you could just play the game for free as long as you refund every two hours.

    Reply

  21. Donovan Olivier

    June 9, 2015 at 14:55

    Are we supposed to be surprised that a vendor dislikes a consumer protection measure?

    Reply

  22. Kevin

    June 9, 2015 at 14:57

    Well, it’s pretty much obvious the refund rate is higher since you couldn’t really refund before….. that said, I do not doubt the system is being exploited aswell.

    Reply

  23. Honey Vig

    June 9, 2015 at 16:20

    So instead of a new Resident Evil or Megaman Capcom has decided to just
    release all the old games again and charge people for it…

    Reply

  24. Smeegle

    June 9, 2015 at 16:23

    I wish this was in place when they released the POS that was Cities XXL. Peace of crap that I had huge fights with Steam about, but no refund was given. I’m glad they brought this in.

    Reply

  25. Johan Mostert

    June 9, 2015 at 16:54

    Wish they had a refund option for Stronghold 3, what a waste of money!

    Reply

  26. Buk Lau

    June 9, 2015 at 17:04

    Of course the gimmicky

    Indie devs are mad
    These get rich quick half assed indies
    Are the death of gaming ( same with those games that seem to never get completed)

    Reply

  27. Jade

    June 9, 2015 at 17:54

    http://steamcharts.com/app/314240#3m “Over the entirety of the 31 days of May, RPG Tycoon was refunded ONCE. In these first 7 days of June out of the 60 average units sold, over 20 of those have claimed a refund,” So huge spike in sales enabled by a more confident consumer has seen increased refunds… Thats… news? That +5600% seems like much bigger news. thats a lot of new people actually playing and trying your game.

    Reply

  28. todspengo

    June 9, 2015 at 18:47

    I have an idea, why not go back to the no refund policy, but release a 30 minute or 1 hour game play demo like back in the 90s. If I had an opportunity to try out a game and then return it if I don’t like it, I will. It’s better than pirating the game to try it before buying it. Developers, stand behind your games and put out a demo, and not one of those prelaunch demos either, but a demo of the released version of game. We PC gamers can’t just go to a Redbox and rent a game. *Developer whines* “But the reviews tells everything.” Umm, no, Evolve had great reviews too, but it’s not my cup of tea.

    Reply

  29. s1974x

    June 9, 2015 at 20:19

    Computer programmers and gaming corporations are just being greedy: have you seen how much they make compared to other industries? No game should offer less than 2 hours of gameplay value and they are just exploiting their customers by misleading them into thinking the games are bigger than they are.

    Reply

  30. Charl van der Merwe

    June 10, 2015 at 09:21

    Games that don’t even run 2 hours on a full play through? lol sounds like crappy games.

    Reply

  31. Almon

    June 11, 2015 at 01:10

    I couldn’t care less about these crying babies. They made short, terrible games that were clearly not worth owning, so people got refunds. Basically a scam.

    Don’t want people to refund your game? Make one fucking worth keeping.

    Reply

  32. letsmaybeLP92

    June 12, 2015 at 17:36

    Steam should learn from GOG:If, within 30 days after the purchase of your game, you experience technical problems or game-breaking bugs that prevent you from finishing your game, contact our customer support. They will do their best to help you fix the problem and if, at the end of their attempts to solve the problem your game is still not working, we’ll give you back your money.

    Reply

  33. Pelorus Lancer

    June 18, 2015 at 00:05

    The problem with the numbers shown is that that’s from when they rarely allowed returns, vs now. It’s hard to say “wow that’s a lot more returns!” when the item you’re comparing it to isn’t exactly the same.

    That being said, I wouldn’t be surprised if some were more than a few taking advantage. Though I’m not sure what advantage that would give them…

    Also, yeah, Steam REALLY needs to fix that refund system for ‘why’ the customer wants it. I’m having a heck of a time trying to get one fixed when there was a payment mess up, because heck if they make it easy to find where to do so..

    Reply

  34. toad_004

    June 18, 2015 at 22:15

    The refund numbers are useless without knowing how SALES have been affected.
    If overall sales have increased by more than the increase in refunds, then it’s a net positive for steam. People may be more willing to buy a game they were on the fence about if they know they can get a refund.
    In addition, generally, people abusing refunds were not going to buy the game if they couldn’t abuse refunds. So is any actual MONEY being lost to these abusers?
    As an aside, I have never gotten a refund. So I’m not trying to defend myself.

    Reply

  35. Mag Wolf

    June 19, 2015 at 15:13

    Make a more intriguing game that takes more then 2 hours to complete or lose a customer is the way I see it. Always the developers that don’t put time into their creations that bitch the most.

    Reply

  36. Gamer Pup

    June 19, 2015 at 22:02

    So according to these morons, they are basically threatening the use of DRM if we keep refunding their shitty games?

    Yeah, that’ll keep the pirates away. And how does these “exploits” make any sense? So one user bought 6 copies of a game and refunded 5 of them. Meaning he spent his money 6 times then refunded 5 copies….how does he gain from that? He SPENT his money SIX TIMES, then asked for a refund for 5 of them. How is he gaining any profit?

    Seems to me like the devs are ONCE AGAIN whining about something they do to their own customers on a constant basis. So to the developers who are shedding tears over it, how does it feel to be shafted by the people you always screw sideways? Don’t like it much do ya?

    There’s an old saying “you get what you give.”

    No fucks given here.

    Reply

  37. Gamer Pup

    June 19, 2015 at 22:07

    I dare people to have some balls and stop using steam. Hit them where it hurts. STOP BUYING AND LOGGING ON. But yeah…the sheeple can’t last 5 minutes without their precious steam client to take a real stand.

    Reply

  38. Daniel Ramos

    June 19, 2015 at 23:05

    This system is horrible. I bought The Witcher 3 and after few days i bought the Season pass. One week later i tried a refund on Season Pass (The content will be only released on October and 2016). Steam denied because i had 15 hours on Witcher 3. Ok, this is right, but i don’t want refund on Witcher 3 i love the game, i just wanted refund in a non released content. My account have 10 years and i never asked for a refund.

    In other hand, my friend bought Dear Esther, played the game entirely and asked for refund, guess what… He got the refund because he had 1:48h in the game. I always feel like a dumb, always the bad costumers enjoys these things. Like when the Origin bugged and a lot of guys just bought 100 games and I didn’t buy because i felt this was wrong.

    Reply

  39. BDK

    June 26, 2015 at 13:29

    Rate of refund before was minimal … lol yeah, cause you couldn’t get a friggin refund.

    Reply

  40. Colin Mcsperritt

    June 28, 2015 at 08:30

    Pro-tip for devs – Don’t make a game that is less than 2h for a full playthrough. Or if you do, make it cheap enough to warrant it.

    Pro-tip for Valve – Game’s under certain £/$ not eligible. Account no longer able to re-fund the same title more than once and if in extreme cases you allow it, don’t allow a second re-purchase.

    Problem solved.

    Reply

  41. Miden

    July 2, 2015 at 01:39

    “Developers are angry”…? If you don’t want your game to be refunded just make a better game… If I were to buy that “RPG Tycoon” shit, I would most definetely request my money back, it’s not the customer’s fault, if they don’t enjoy a game they have the right to take their money back… That’s greed right there, developers are getting angry from refunds, people request refunds only because they don’t enjoy the game, so, instead of being angry about it, figure out the reason why your stupid games don’t work out, and why you don’t have proper sales, and stop bitching and wondering “AWW, WHY IS MY MONEY BEING TAKEN, I DONT UNDERSTAND”
    <3

    Reply

  42. Meh

    August 16, 2015 at 10:38

    Good! They should be pissed crap needs to banned not a gamers budget. Steam should just run metrics for what constitutes as a “GAME” indie or otherwise, because it would make everyone’s lives better.

    Reply

  43. Joe Hill

    August 17, 2015 at 15:47

    how do we know if people are actualy abusing the system if these people would make longer games and not have micro transactions and dlc i think their wouldn’t be a problem

    Reply

  44. Joseph Graham

    September 22, 2015 at 01:20

    This only became a thing when early access developers started abusing their customers. lol Plus it’s steam’s refund policy. If someone tries a game for less than two hours and feel they dont like what they are getting, they should be allowed a refund. It’s kind of like when games used to have demos.

    Reply

  45. terrya

    November 29, 2015 at 00:13

    I think it’s high time we as consumers have some protection from scammer indie developers who videos show content which is not even in the game, or they have their friends post fake reviews all in favor of the game. DRM, please, if the indie developers wish to make money then they had better make a decent product, and stop false advertising their product.

    All to often you get devs who won’t even finish their games. I am so tired of people defending the rights of the indie developer when in fact they should be defending the consumer. It’s high time we show who really runs this market, and that is the consumer, not the developer.

    Reply

  46. Meh

    November 30, 2015 at 15:11

    Shitty devs deserve it, no wonder their the same devs complaining about pirated stuff. You could put a bowtie on a pack of shit it wouldn’t change the fact its shit and you deserve your money back. Its not exploit its called a safety net get the eff over it.

    Reply

  47. Webwolf50

    March 9, 2016 at 10:51

    Well – if the gaming houses have not been punting lazy programming pawed of as a complete game, this would have been a non – event. As it is, there are very few titles these days that work as expected off the shelf, so – Gaming Industry, take note, give us proper products and then you can quit bitching about refund policies.

    Reply

  48. George Alexander Floudas

    May 3, 2016 at 18:25

    This is Well deserved 🙂 Either make games that last so that people will want to keep or start making demos again and stp bitching about it 😀
    And for those who say it’s abuse/exploit. is it not considered an abuse when people forcefully demanded you to pay for whatever shitgame looks nice but is not without even having a demo?All the Devs know is cry about it like the Kidults they are while giving NOTHING in return! hell, some games even make you pay for their trailers.
    Go on, try to even touch the refund policy and I can promise you that you’ll be seeing increased rates in pirating.
    The fact that 3/4 of the sales were refunds probably means that your game was short,with no extra qualities to keep you attached to it and it merely lasted 2 hours. that’s YOUR fault. not Steam’s. And Steam has to do that because they can’t give two shits about filtering every crap title that uses free assets and gets uploaded there for money. in case a person buys a game like that they are fully allowed to get a refund. and that counts for EVERY game dev.

    Reply

  49. Neonivek

    February 1, 2017 at 12:24

    Me thinks the developers protest too much. So a game that has less than 2 hours of content and a third refund it? And you wonder why?
    This isn’t a steam refund issue. This is a “Steam QA” issue.

    Reply

  50. andrius79

    December 28, 2017 at 15:54

    What a heck are you talking about their refund sucks and i will tell why!!!!
    Before getting full release of playerunknown battleground game I have checked all info on steam game sales page, it was promoted as very good stable game, all people reviews are positive with thumbs up.
    So i decided to get the game and i got it, stared playing testing and in around 7h i have realised that the game is so bad that it is still at alpha stage not even beta. So i went to review page again to see is it only for me so bad and surprise surprise then you have the game you are moved in to totally different review page than the one on sales page, and 99% reviews are negative all thumbs down for reasons game is not optimized , crashes, cheaters, bugs.
    So I have asked refund and was refused as played more than 7h, 2 hours isn’t enough to test the game.
    So no i feel so fooled and angry got shit for 30€.
    I will never ever buy anything from steam again.
    Sorry for mistakes English isnt my mother Tongue

    Reply

  51. First

    January 16, 2019 at 14:45

    I responded to this already but it’s stuck in moderation queue. I talked about the policy being bad on both sides including for developers and consumers but that consumers have some better legal protections.

    The problem here which hurts developers also hurts consumers and I talked about a case I had as a consumer. If consumers can get this fixed then that also helped the developers injured by it as well.

    That has now been resolved. I’ve eventually been able to get my case across and for steam to see reason. I don’t want to copy the specifics because I fear anyone could copy it regardless of whether they’re deserving of a refund or not.

    I was at the point where I was about to take this to court. I’ve built up a case spanning several pages including mathematical proofs, logical proofs, legal proofs and many other things. The last thing I saw about to do was to download the game, copy its executable keeping a backup for legal purposes, uninstall it, then disassemble the executable to demonstrate the defect beyond a shadow of a doubt.

    However before presenting my case before a court I also presented it to steam. What you should get from this that it wasn’t easy. For me to be treated fairly in a valid case for a refund not only did I have to jump through hoops but I also had to be:

    1. Well versed in the law including compliance, the reach of terms and services, and the rights of the consumer. Not only in terms of the letter of the law but the spirit and on the ground realities.
    2. Well versed in gaming, expectations of a gaming product.
    3. Able to write up my case well.
    4. Well versed in software development including game development.
    5. Experienced in support. Both developing support systems including the software and human processes, acting as a member of support and myself developing games and issuing refunds with direct customer interaction.
    6. Some understanding of merchant systems and responsibilities as well as concerns involved.

    Essentially on a whole number of levels for every aspect involved I had to be a heavyweight and I had to throw my full weight into it to even reach a point where I was able to discuss with a human the actual problems I was having.

    Based on this single case it’s not like steam is going to change overnight but I like to think that cases like this will build up to a point where they will be influential behind further improvements. Not absolutely everyone is going to have this experience but plenty of people do and when you’re in a situation where you really deserve a refund but steam won’t budge chances are you wont receive it unless you’re able to either be very persistent or unreasonably knowledgeable about all of the aspects involved to the point of being able to build a rock solid case with no stone left unturned, every avenue of escape covered, that could pass through any court open and closed case.

    The legal case I built up for this would also protected developers in a sense that it addresses the same problem. However I know of no direct law that would protect developers in the same way consumers are directly protected. Consumers have certain rights to refunds so if you find those rights refused on certain grounds that can be demonstrated as overwhelmingly flawed they can seek legal recourse. On the same flawed grounds refunds are also being issued that shouldn’t be hurting developers. Same root cause but I don’t know of a specific law the protected the developers when a party issues invalid refunds. In many places you can simply seek remedy for monetary loss through incompetent or unreasonable action though that’s pretty vague legally speaking.

    Reply

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