DOTA 2 is a blight on the gaming community

6 min read


Gamers and the gaming community have often been seen as being unnecessarily aggressive in games with –  slurs on people’s mothers being the absolute norm and attacks on peoples’ gender, race and belief systems simply par for the course. So why do I single out DOTA 2?

Well, because while the gaming communities are often their own worst enemies when it comes to being respected as a mature hobby and something that can be grown into a truly representative sport, it has always been inclusive of other members of the gaming community.

Yes it’s hard to get into and you need some seriously thick skin to stay here but generally gamers like gamers and things are pretty happy all round. That is until DOTA arrived. I’m generally an average gamer; I can hold my own in most games and while any game has a learning curve I’ve never before been massively abused for being a noob… that is until I tried DOTA.

These people are serious

But let’s take a step back here. The first I heard about DOTA was from a friend in the industry who has a hopeless addiction to the game. He went on about how incredible the game was and how deep the strategy and gameplay was and that I should really give it a go.

So I agreed and installed DOTA 2 and then asked if I can join his game his response surprised me

“er, no I think maybe you should just play with bots for a couple of days and then maybe”

I’ve never been invited to play a game before and then get told that they don’t want to play with me. I just thought he was being a bit of an ass so I asked some other regular DOTA players and I got the exact same response from all of them. It was amazing.

Read  Community Chat: What on earth are you still doing at work?

So I went online and played some DOTA 2 against the bots – and it was painfully boring. I had no idea what I was meant to do (besides the obvious) and after about 3 games I just gave up.

I then entered the South Africa DOTA 2 group on Steam. I mean South Africans are awesome people and so I’d surely find someone on there to have a casual game with me. How wrong I was. I got invited to 3 games and then when I said I was a noob I got instantly kicked. No explanation given just a pure kick.

When I asked the main chat group why no one would play with a noob I was subjected to a torrent of abuse. It was amazing. I’ve received a crap load of abuse while running this site and I have to say that the abuse I came under on the DOTA group for simply saying I’m a noob was mind-blowing.


But what’s more depressing really are posts like this that people publically post on forums like neogaf

The headline reads, Region Lock Multiplayer Games Good, which besides its horrendous English is a very strange thing to see on a gaming forum. The actual post is worse though.

“Lost 4/5 games in dota 2 today because brazil and peru player wont fucking stay in their own region.

Goes into us east/west and ruins the game.

Someone disconnects? *checks steam profile* GUESS WHAT, south american
entire game, their little group talks in their own language, when they die, they start blaming it on other people, all i see is – ‘report _____’, ‘jajaja’, ‘nob’, other broken english being spammed using mic and speaking entire time, other teammates have no clue what’s going on and is really annoying (i had a game once where 4 of us were english speakers and the 5th guy was probably spanish, he kept talking into the mic, the rest of us told him NONE of us spoke his language but he continued to speak the entire game) of course i’ve had good games with them before, but holy shit, when it’s 1 game out of 20, just fuck it, ip ban them from our region please”

So this game has become so divisive that it is now seen as acceptable to post on public forums that you don’t want people of other races and languages to play with you in your game? The game itself may be good but the vast majority of the community is an acerbic,  absolute disgrace and they really should be ashamed of themselves.

Read  Community Chat: What on earth are you still doing at work?

To any DOTA player who wants to say this isn’t true of them and their friends then tell me; have you complained about the Russians joining your Western servers and ruining the game?

Last Updated: July 26, 2013

Gavin Mannion

I for one welcome our future robotic overlords

  • VinTaco

    LoL community is the same, though there are more regional servers and you can’t bounce from one to the other easily. It used to be worse when EU was just one server, now there are four.

    All in all, its very unfortunate :/.

    • Marcos Franthesco

      At least LoL has a REAL form of maintaining order and respect. Dota 2 takes your priority only

  • Hammersteyn

    * Runs of to install DOTA *

    • Hammersteyn

      Good heavens that’s big, sorry all.

      • lol makes it even better

      • Admiral Chief Minion 47

        Make ze zirkel beeeeeggar

      • Trevor Davies

        That’s what she said!

        • Hammersteyn


        • Admiral Chief Minion 47



          • Trevor Davies

            No it’s not fixed, you broke it! 🙁

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            SHADDAP, you sound jealous…

      • RinceDAmasterdebata


      • RinceDAmasterdebata

        I think this is a case for Our team! Time to oil up, and slide down that pole man! Onward!

  • MichaelMatusowsky

    DotA 2:
    Play the TRAINING first before you play with ANYONE online.
    After you’re done with the training 100%, then, AND ONLY THEN, will you be allowed into our folds. The thing about DotA 2 is that if ONE person is shit, it literally brings down the entire team. One person can make the difference in a team of five. First learn the basic mechanics, then play on your own a bit to continue getting into it and eventually your friends will play with you. The thing is there’s this thing called MMR. When you start out, it’s 0. Your friends are obviously at a higher MMR. That MMR decides how difficult your opponents will be. The higher it is, the more difficult they are. Don’t complain :3. The way MMR works with dota 2 is that if your mate has MMR of 10 and you of 1, it’ll match you up with people of MMR 7.

    • Slade Boender

      Can you provide some evidence/ a link to your MMR theory? I’ve trawled the net for any black and white on the matchmaking to no avail.

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        Agreed. I tried to jump in to a match and it chucked me in with players who, according to their stats, had been playing for months and I was perhaps a 2 week old player.

      • MichaelMatusowsky
    • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

      Here’s the thing. Even after the training, unless you are as clued up as the others playing with you, you get abused. Verbally. The hate people spew is what this article is about. Not whether or not the game is difficult.

      Yes it can bring down the entire team, but is it ok to then verbally abuse the guy/girl because they can’t play as good as you or your opponents? Sorry, but that’s not right either.

      If the community wants the community to grow and become better then they should help eachother grow. Not say “Go play against bots until you are good enough you stupid noob”

      • Dosanator

        As a competitive LoL and Dota player from WC3 days, I can honestly understand the frustration of playing with new players.

        Generally speaking, Playing with noobs in a Moba is painful. Should they be harassed for being noob? Yes, Being harassed for being bad is not the worst thing. Being a Moba player is a Trial by fire, people harassing you for being retarded/noob is a way of separating the wheat from the chaff.

        If you enjoys moba’s, You will eat the abuse and play enough to get decent. Once you are comfortable playing Dota, you will get stuck with a noob and then have full license to abuse them.

        It is the circle of MOBA, learn it, LOVE IT!


        • Majerk

          So in order to break into a game I should just learn to deal with other’s abuse?

          F’ that and F’ you.

          (before you complain, just give into the abuse)

      • Christopher Paredes

        Yes it is, because that’s the established norm in DotA.

        Valve wants to clean the community up and make it friendly because they want more users buying hats, but the fact is that DotA originated back from a platform where you used to be able to whisper people who weren’t on your friendslist, where people ran organized banlists to keep users with high pings and poor skill out of their game.

        Those features don’t exist in Dota 2 because Valve exists in the new era of gaming that is trying to make gaming more appealing for the mainstream. It’s a world where Heroes of the Storm doesn’t even have all chat, where Steam only lets you message people on your friendlist, and Valve gives people easy access to mute people.

        But DotA veterans are the vanguards of the old days where what you call toxicity is the norm. To us, we’re not toxic, cancerous, or a blight on the gaming community — YOU are the cancer. This isn’t a game for people to relax and unwind with. If you join queue, you should be coming prepared to win. And players who don’t do that are a handicap and are treated as such.

        If you feel the need to say that the community needs to be nicer and more welcoming, that’s a signal you don’t belong.

        • Ranting Raptor

          Thanks for proving my point 🙂

          • Christopher Paredes

            What point? I don’t disagree at all with the article. The DotA community is nasty, brutish, and short.

            The thing you don’t get is, as I said, the veteran community does not consider its disposition to be a problem. This modern movement towards friendly casual-friendly gaming — where feelings and vulnerability is more important than winning — is the problem.

            You say “If the community wants the community to grow and become better then they should help each other grow.” That’s actually what the community is doing, just not in a fragile-friendly way you demand and expect.

            In DotA, you get flamed when you make a mistake. It’s destructive feedback. In an era of flawed self-esteem based parenting, lots of people don’t react well to it. But that doesn’t mean it’s invalid. This system of feedback is how the military operates. Some of the best and most accomplished leaders on the court/field are extremely hostile and combative leaders. Some of the most successful people in business have extremely confrontational styles.

            Now you might say “Well that’s not what I signed up for when I wanted to play a GAME!” And it’s true that different people respond differently to different leaders and different leadership styles.

            But now we arrive at the crux of the issue: it’s YOU that doesn’t belong. You are the newcomer coming into our house and saying we have to change so you can participate.

            No. We have no desire nor need to change to accommodate your fragility. If you can’t handle it, we don’t want you. Get out.

          • Hammersteyn

            I can handle it just fine, they can’t handle the way I play. So toughies for them

          • Gredival

            If you keep playing then eventually the system will sort you into the bracket you belong in (there is a hidden ELO/MMR rating for the unranked ladder) where you won’t be ruining people’s games just by being bad/new.

            But even when you are calibrated correctly you should expect to be flamed for screwing up. Flaming you doesn’t mean the flamer can’t handle how you play (unless you’re purposefully throwing, then yes they probably can’t handle it). It’s just the long established cultural/community norm.

            And it’s a multiplayer team vs. team game.If you playing “your game” in “your way” costs four other people to waste an hour of their time, then yeah people are going to be upset. If you want complete freedom to do whatever you want, play solo vs. bots.

    • Hammersteyn

      “Our folds”? So one has to pas a certification exam, provide a urine sample, proof of residency and have a MMR of at least 10 before said person won’t be treated like a leaper and be graciously allowed to join the fun?

      • Admiral Chief Minion 47

        No thanks

        • Hammersteyn

          Planetside 2 FTW. The redesigned ESAMIR. All the bases look different, there are even trees on the icy wasteland now and there is talk of possible bionic upgrades for your soldier in the future.

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            Agreed, got a new LMG last night, and what an epic OWNAGE gun it is!!!

            Bionic upgrades?

            TELL ME MOAR!!!

          • Hammersteyn
          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            EM1, got my red dot scope as well.

            That gun just gets me

          • Hammersteyn

            NC Filth. I will rip your squads apart with my :

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            Pfffff, spray and pray mofo

          • Hammersteyn

            LOL that’s just it. I have the extended mag that holds 200 rounds. When I pull the trigger I don’t let go until I’m dead or no one is left standing. Then I reload or repsawn

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            When did they redesign Esamir? Was that why I had 1.5gb update? Was jamming on Amerish last night though…

          • Hammersteyn

            Yes it was.

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            WOOOOT, tonight we dine in ESAMIR!!!

          • Theo Steenekamp

            Planetside 2!! I love love love love that game. Screw anything else, BF3, COD… Just not my beloved Hello Kitty island, but screw the rest!

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            Cool, what server you jamming?

          • Theo Steenekamp

            I play on Miller

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            Damn, I’m on Cobalt

          • LordCaptainAwesomeness

            Never tried Planetside 2…. May have to give it a go..

          • Hammersteyn

            F2P, it only asks money for customization items like masks or different colors for your tanks and planes.

          • LordCaptainAwesomeness

            Signed up..

          • Hammersteyn

            Awesome, doesn’t matter which of the three sides you pick, you have three character slots 🙂

          • Jonathan C Dickinson

            Planetside is awesome, pity they are bashing it to nothing with that nerfhammer of theirs…

          • Hammersteyn

            Which nerfhammer?

          • Jonathan C Dickinson

            Oh they are nerfing all the things. Mines for example, not really much use for what they were designed for (area denial) because of the limits they [semi-recently] placed on them. It’s still a brilliant game, I just worry about for how much longer.

      • RinceDAmasterdebata
        • Hammersteyn


      • MichaelMatusowsky

        By all means, go play. Just don’t complain when your mates do not want to queue with you. If playing against bots doesn’t suit you, then go play against real people in the match making system. Or find other friends who are also new to dota 2 and queue with them. After 100 games you should at least know how to play 2 or 3 heroes. Watch some videos online.

        What people don’t understand is that DotA 2 has a VERY steep learning curve. In FPS, you just learn to shoot and there you’re done. DotA 2 has over 80 heroes, 80 items, 80×4 spells.. To learn all those mechanics in a short timespan is impossible.

        Best thing to do is ignore the ragers when you’re starting out. But don’t expect people with higher mmr to play with you. We don’t like losing since it LOWERS OUR OWN MMR which means we end up queueing with shitters when we could be playing with people of equal skill.

      • Christopher Paredes

        If you want to play with your “friends” then those friends have the right to apply whatever criteria they have. If they don’t enjoy losing (which is almost a certainty if you are going to anchor them being a new player) and they don’t want to play with you, that’s their right.

    • brad coetzee

      LOOK EVERYONE! A Dota chop!

      • dosanator

        Dude, Dota chops play Dota. You don’t see us playing hello kitty island adventure, and start trolling you with our fail. We let you play your games, don’t mess with ours. Its SrsBzns!

    • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

      Wow, the community sounds amazing. I’ve never played DOTA 2, and I think I’d be perfect for your team of 3l33t gaming man meats. Please find attached a copy of my CV. I also have reference letters and a stool sample.

      • Hammersteyn


    • Mark Treloar

      It’s supposed to be a game. When winning means more than having fun. You have missed the point.

      • Christopher Paredes

        “Games” are defined as such due to a competition with the conceit of having rules, formats, objective. Some games are fun, but they need not be. And all sorts of games become progressively less fun and more serious and about winning the better the players are, whether it’s sports or video games.

    • Defirence


    • Dirk Justin Woest

      WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dont search a public match if you are a dick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get yourself a team and bitch and moan at them so they can treat you badly. Dont search a pub match and expect things to be rosy. That is just arrogant stupidity! Rude dota players need to back out of pub matches and let the rest of us enjoy ourselves. After all – it is a game and win or lose it should be fun. If you can’t take losing, DON”T SEARCH PUB. FINISHED

      • Michael Matusowsky

        1) You’re 3 years late to the party and I’ve quit DotA 2 since this article came up
        2) Berating other players happens in all games and SPORTS. If you’re not pulling your weight in a TEAM ORIENTED game, some people just need that kick up the arse to up their game.
        3) If you’re playing a TEAM ORIENTED game just to have fun then you better make sure you’re going to play your heart out so that the other people in your TEAM don’t complain when “sorry dude I’m so high right now” happens.

  • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

    This is why I stopped playing. There are a few people I know who generally try to help me but I just am not good enough to play the game without these people. Once I leave the protective net of my closed friends then the abuse I get is staggering because I am a sightly mediocre DOTA player.

    The general community is abusive and I agree with this article 100%

    • LordCaptainAwesomeness

      I have to applaud Gavin for not saying what we are all thinking.. these guys(and Girls) are a bunch of Dicks.

      Fully agree with the article, they can keep their Dota, and believe that they are Uber awesome or whatever they want….

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        Agreed. Planetside2 FTW. Nice people. Much more intense games and even if you suck people appreciate the effort you put in (Mostly)

        • Hammersteyn

          When I started playing it I was like a lost little boy. Then I got into it and now I can follow people around knowing exactly what we are doing next and where we are going. Just watch the friendly fire.

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            Exactly and the guys help you out. If you ask any number of people will go, right, team up with me, follow me and listen. This is what this does and that is bla bla bla and they will mentor you. THAT is what I look for in a community

          • Hammersteyn

            The best part. You can auto join any squad and follow them and I have never,NEVER been kicked out of a squad mainly because if the go to Indar from Amerish I if there is a alert. Here it seems that you get kicked just because people feel entitled to do so based on their high standards.

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            Yeah that bugs me too. If someone is doing bad in a game why not mentor and say, listen, do this and get that item etc. Don’t shout “OMF YOU FEEDER NOOB PIECE OF SH*T” like they did to me. And that was only because I got killed first. They hadn’t even been able to see if I could play or not. They did that based on the first death. Seriously? Go pluck a duck a**holes.

            but no. The DOTA2 community (at large) will scream and curse before assisting

          • LordCaptainAwesomeness

            Where is OVG when you need him?

          • RinceDAmasterdebata

            I know, OVG! STAT!

      • CrasH

        any team based game, the noob destoyes value for the better players, but shooters its pretty clear that bullets hurt and aim the pointy part at the enemy…

        The game has a steap learning curve. so either learn or don’t play.

        Lanning, support, pulling .creeping, bushing,stacking, lane control, vision, ganking, harrasing, baiting, denying, last hitting, rune control, cc, roshing and timers, differant build for differant scenario’s, body blocking, shadow walking and then you still need to remeber to carry TP… always carry TP

        • LordCaptainAwesomeness

          “The game has a steap learning curve. so either learn or don’t play”

          SO does a lot of other games… yet, you do not find that level of “behind-the-monitor-bravery” every where.

          “any team based game, the noob destoyes value for the better players, but shooters its pretty clear that bullets hurt and aim the pointy part at the enemy…”

          Now how is a condescending statement like that supposed to change our opinion about the DOTA community?

          It is the same as me trying to push you off the road, just because you do not have the same Uber Driving skills that I have been working on for years… learn to drive or get of the road… See… that does not fly

          • CrasH

            If that was the case and every person tried to push me off the road… I would learn to drive or stop… and i also annoyed with the players shouting and swearing at others, i agree the people are verbal (never said i was one of them) but i understand there frustration is what i am saying.

            And i am tired of noobs crying… Not many games throw you into a team scenario with random players, but the few times i have been the noob in those games, i expect to have some words said to me.

            I can tell you now, the 90% of the noobs are just as verbal as the people who scold them, which does not make teaching them any easier…

          • Christopher Paredes

            The thing you aren’t getting is that no one wants to change your opinion about the community. It’s that to us, it’s a positive not a negative.

        • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

          Eve online has the steepest learning curve I have ever experienced. The community is still nicer than the DOTA2 community (In general)

          • RinceDAmasterdebata

            Agreed I played Eve for close to two years, and other than one or two cases I was treated like I deserved to be there. In fact, they were damn nice, offering to teach me how to play etc. Shit, even when I was first killed the pirates sent me an IM telling me what to do, and how to clone etc. Was very civil 🙂

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            Lol. Same happened to me. Guy mailed me saying no hard feelings. He’s just a pirate in game and that’s how he enjoys playing it.

            He even paid for my ship and fittings to be replaced. Then he explained a few good strats and gave me some links he had found useful.

            Look, any game like that you have to learn by practicing and reading strat guides etc. I get that.

            But surely you can be respectful even if your team loses? It’s not the newbies fault that the server chucked him with high lvl players now is it?

            That’s valves job to ensure it doesn’t happen and if you teach the guy/girl when you get an opportunity you make the community a better place because that player will remember that teaching and is more likely to teach others as they grow.

            It’s what happened in Eve. I eventually mentored other players and took time out of my games to assist them where I could.

            Respect is how a good community is made

          • RinceDAmasterdebata

            It’s actually retarded to not help them. If you stop new members from joining the community by acting the prick, you risk actually destroying the community. Surely one would want it to be successful?

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            Couldn’t agree more

      • dosanator

        You applaud Gavin for failing? This is exactly the kind of attitude we don’t want in Moba’s. Failure isn’t an option. By sucking in a moba, you are giving 4 other people from different corners of the world the right to mock you.

        Please in future, read the EULA provided with the game.

        Quote taken from the End user license agreement :

        ” Conditions of Abuse – B. By accepting these terms, I am willfully opening myself up to ridicule and or Flame.Also,Valve will not be held accountable for people being whiny fails”


  • Slade Boender

    Maybe if the old gents at valve could make team matchmaking a more selectable situation than this invisible matchmaking excuse theyre running now, then maybe these kinds of things would be kept to a minimum. Not every player is a complete douchebag. That being said, I have been known to be a schmuck when the time calls, and its usually because the people playing, although trying to help them, just piss off on their own mission instead of playing as a team.

    Not everyone handles well in a team especially for a game with a such a massive learning curve, but surely being able to select easy / average / above average / pro games would absolve this issue?
    Im just spit balling i guess. If I was able to have every game a challenge instead of a rape match I’d be grateful. Its more fun to have a 40-60 minute game than it is a 25 minute abortion of a match.


    • Would have loved to try play a casual game with people but like you say there is no difficulty settings.. it’s ass raped or nothing

      • Theo Steenekamp

        Some people like that…

        • Slade Boender

          haha jou vuil bliksem

      • Slade Boender

        It is somewhat murderous, and the problem is that its 8 out of 10 games that are beyond unbalanced, with maybe 2 being an actual challenge. I mean i love getting murdered/winning with murders like the next guy, but its not exactly a challenge if the people on either team are rambo’ing their lives away.

      • Matthew Holliday

        If you want a nice casual game, add myself or matthew fig on steam and arrange a game with similarly new players.
        My earlier post may have come across as a bit angry, but you judge the community without having experienced the friendlier side and instead just bashed us in a massively public article on a website where you have massive influence over the oppinions of the userbase.

        My steam: crit_deviance

  • Trevor Davies

    That’s what turns me off multiplayer games – it’s not about playing, it’s about winning. Don’t need that crap in my life, I’ll sit alone in my single player game… so alone… 😉

    • Not all games are like this.. in fact DOTA 2 is the only one I’ve ever come across that is this bad

      • LordCaptainAwesomeness

        League of Legends?

        • CoD is nothing like this, you can easily find casual games in COD.

          never played LoL

          • Admiral Chief Minion 47

            Shame, you never LOL? I must tell you some jokes then…

          • LordCaptainAwesomeness

            he he he good one

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            hahaha. Winna!

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            hahaha. Winna!

          • Matthew Holliday

            communication isnt an important factor in casual CoD play, nor is chat in CoD convenient at all.

            infact, a team can still win when 3 out of the 5 teammates are complete noobs, purely because other players performance doesnt affect your own.

            CoD matches are also only 5-10 minutes, while dota is 30-60 minutes and the using the chat function doesnt completley stop your play, so its more convenient and available in dota.

            playing with users that feed or dont work with the team, which in turn ruins your gaming experience on a personal level, for an extended period of time, gets quite aggravating.

            again, pointing out that its not OK to be a total asshat.

        • Neurotic Knight

          Lol normals tend to be pretty chill usually, else bots, in ARAM no one even gives a shit about what you do.

      • Admiral Chief Minion 47

        Same here man, same here

      • Trevor Davies

        No I know, I’m just being facetious. I had a little bit of the same when I tried LoL, was more amused at being called a noob in a supposedly noob-only game. Most of the time I don’t even pay attention to what people are saying because I’m concentrating on what I’m doing.

    • Hammersteyn

      I felt the same till Planetside 2 came along. It’s a bit confusing in the beginning but a week later and you will know what goes where. Plus there are tons of videos on Youtube to coach players and teach you about the different weapons available. Plus the people work together seamlessly, just watch the friendly fire 😛

  • CodeName Tailgunner

    Has anyone ever tried Girlfriend DOTA?

    Out of a group of 8 serious DOTA players there are most likely only 2 at most who have a friend who is a girl.

    Now put the girls in one lane and make that off limits to the other players.

    play the entire game

    Voila you are playing dota with your girl friends.

    If you do it any other way she quits because everyone wants to have intercourse with her mother

    Now insert noob above where you have girl

    Sorry for the sexist nature of the post

  • Grant Hancock

    If Dota 2 players want their game to be treated as a sport then they need to stop simply thinking about themselves… I’ve been in Triathlon for years, and while there are many dicks like these Dota players in question who have no time for newcomers, there are also a lot of good people who will sacrifice their own time to help others learn, get fitter… even sacrifice their own race goals to help other people through their first race etc. …

    The problem with online gaming / sports though is that you just don’t get the same satisfaction from helping someone as you do face-to-face… and even worse, there is much less sense of ‘respect’ for the person at the other end of the connection. In real life a ‘noob’ is a guy/girl with a life of their own, own background, own reason for being there etc. You would never call a 40 year old ex-rugby player who wants to learn how to swim a ‘noob’ who is wasting yours and everyone elses time.

    • Matthew Holliday

      suggesting that there isnt the same proportion of people that want to help others in dota is insulting.

      also, dont compare physical sports to e-sports, it doesnt work on the internet.

      • Grant Hancock

        Thats what second half of my post was alluding to… Unless you actually know the person you are dealing with on the web, there is very little reason for you to give them the time of day unless it would be beneficial to you. This line of thinking applies to Dota, CoD etc. etc.

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        And right you are for pointing that out. But one has to admit that if 9/10 games are abuse for not being good enough and only one game has people who would actually help then it kinda would drive a person away from the game correct? It’s what happened to me 🙁

        People like you who would help are ultimately damaged by the community at large who generally bully those who are new because it gives all players a bad light even though it may not be the case.

        • Grant Hancock

          Yeah… didn’t mean to imply that all players are chops… but overall perception of community is that.

          I think it is only the guys at Valve who can put things in place to create an environment that is friendlier to new players. the bulk of existing players are experienced and don’t get the same type of abuse as newbies… who either get with the programme or leave… so the call from inside the game for things to change, both in attitude and structurally (to channel newbies to easier games, identify live training games, coaching sessions etc.) is unlikely to come from existing gamers… and because of the high burn out rate of newbies, they are probably not big enough in number to force a change.

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            I agree with you hey. If their matchmaking system was better then this issue would probably seem a lot smaller.

            Like why not create a gaming mode where high level players can coach without actually playing. Where the guy kinda links to a certain player and acts as his guide saying do this now, buy this, remember this and then the newbie plays by carrying out the instructions. Understand what I am getting at?

          • Grant Hancock

            I’m with you … something like that is definitely needed.

        • Matthew Holliday

          yoloing into a game without having made the effort to learn it is the same as (to use your own analogy) going into a triathlon without having learnt to ride a bike or swim.

          sure you might get lucky and find someone who would help you in a game, but going into something with help already confirmed, is a much better deal.

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            Ok let’s use my own experience.

            I played DOTA when it was just a Warcraft mod. So I understood how the game works.

            Along comes DOTA 2 and mostly it is the same. Item differances etc sure. You learn as you go along. You play a few games against bots, you find ou what items are best for which characters, you read the suggested buy guides and strat guides.

            I am by no means the best player, but I am by no means the worst either. A team very rarely has to carry me as I can generally keep my own. However, that being said the abuse I get is still staggering in general community games. The matchmaking often puts me with players way above my level and while I am no noob, I get treated like dirty 9/10 games.

            I’m not “yoloing” in to the game. I know what’s going on. It took me a bit of getting used to in the beginning and a lot of abuse but I became better. Yet I STILL take abuse on almost every match form my own team mates. The guys who are supposed to offer suggestions and support if things aren’t going as planned but instead, once a team starts losing some ground they start hating on everyone else, claiming the rest of the team sucks and that we should all rather just die horribly deaths.

            This is not acceptable. I am used to playing with mates that if we start losing ground instead of cursing each other we form a new strat, switch out lanes etc. That’s what I generally expect from others but it never happens. It’s why I stopped playing completely because the general community at large is unable to be nice and supportive. Even to those like myself who can generally hold their own but aren’t “as good as the others”.

            Unless you are very good at the game you are alienated by most and that is the main problem. There are too few “nice” people in the general community games to make it worth my while as a fun, enjoyable game because fun and enjoyable don’t go with hate speach and insults.

    • Christopher Paredes

      You need to take the level of competition into account here.

      At the highest levels of professional DotA, there are tons of people who will give people a hand up. The difference is that the amount of people who reach that level is, percentage wise, fewer than the amount of high school football players who will the NFL.

      BUT if you are actuallytalented enough to reach that level, you will find mentors. A fifteen year old Pakistani immigrant was given a helping hand to become a player on the best American team and he won $3,000,000 at his second tournament.

      It’s the same as rookies in the NFL or the NBA etc. There’s always mentors for the new talent so long as you are good enough.

      But the vast majority of the players aren’t at the professional tier. At that level, no your goal isn’t to help random new players you don’t know and owe nothing to. Because if you’re serious, then you are probably clawing and trying to be the next breakthrough.

  • Estian

    Believe me when I say, the LoL community is much worse in its own right.

  • Once again, this is one of the many cases of the gaming industry focusing more on cry babies instead of the guys that actually know what they’re doing. The guy who usually starts moaning isn’t far off from being a n00b himself. The best players are always the guys who can adapt and be a diverse player, kids can’t, they moan about everything because it isn’t their way.

    And so, yet another game proves that developers lost their touch, worrying about guys like this kills the gaming industry.

    • Alwyn Venter

      Love the comment about adapting. #Win…

  • Robert Infy Hart

    Asking a good Dota 2 player if you can play with him is like a regular bloke asking Lionel Messi if he can join him in a Premier League Football match.

    The guy gave you solid advise. Learn to ride a bike before you enter the tour de france.

    • oh crap, it’s like asking Messi to join you for a kick about. Not in a competitive match

      • frikkenator

        The reason I don’t let new guys play with until they know the game is that it is going to be a horrible, horrible experience for them playing on the higher levels. The matchmaking will put us in a game against guys with a couple of hundred games under their belt and someone brand new is just going to die over and over and over. Which will leave you with a sour taste in your mouth after game 3 of this happening.

        If you follow the new training they’ve added you’ll be put in limited hero games with other new guys to allow you to get to know the mechanics first.

      • Robert Infy Hart

        You can always play against AI with your mate 😛

      • Matthew Holliday

        yeah but you dont understand that every game is a competative match in dota, its always personal.
        asking an experienced friend to help you however, is a different matter.

      • CodeName Tailgunner

        What bugs me the most is that no one seems to remember that they were reaaaallly crap when they started out.

        • RinceDAmasterdebata

          You would think hey?

          • Trevor Davies

            I’m waiting with bated breath for the screeching once Star Citizen launches their dog-fighting alpha. I’ll happily admit I suck at flying, haven’t played any kind of flight sim in YEARS, and don’t expect to do well at all. But the number of people you see carrying on in their forum about being ace pilots who pwn all… when they haven’t even played the game… and don’t even get people on control schemes lol

          • RinceDAmasterdebata

            This is what I mean. And frankly I blame the parents 😉

        • CrasH

          I do remeber being crap…

          I went through my fair share of flame but I did read how to play, best strats, watch others play, played it on LAN and even against bots (but i knew i was crap and the abuse i was going to get) And 10 years later… now I must teach you…
          Go play LoL so that you only have to worry about 50% of what you deal with in Dota.

          • CodeName Tailgunner

            Hi CrasH

            So you are that level 30 player that joins the noob only lvl 0 games in order to give us a “learning experience”. Then goes off on a rant about being 30-0-0 and how “this team sux” and “f-this noobs”

            Stay classy.

          • CrasH

            ROFL… I have too little patcience to play in game like that and btw having a 30-0-0 score actually means you suck cause no assists means not team player…

            I have won a game where we were 25-52 and have lost before being in the kill lead…score does not = win…

          • CypherGate

            10 years later? Really?

          • CrasH

            Yes, the game has been around for about that long… stated on WC3
            a modded map that had its 1st WCG in 2005?

          • CypherGate

            Wow…. That takes some dedication playing a game for that long. Ok my buddy who has been playing Final Fantasy online been playing around the same amount of time up until FF14 Realm Reborn. Still playing and loving it. His single though so he has no real responsibilities

          • CrasH

            not 10 year in one sitting 😛
            I am married but i met my wife at OC while playing a DOTA comp…
            i stopped when i moved to JHB, just grew tired of it as pubs and comps varied a lot. Then tried HON, was okay, then Tried LOL, have a lvl 30 account an in all honestly it was soooo easy compared to DOTA lost intrest quickly.

            Then DOTA2… said i would only play casually.. ended up playing some comps for my old clan and stand in for a few others and now back at giving it up cause i cant play enough to be competative as work makes me fly around a bit and secondly, i cannot take being grouped with the viliage idiot every second game. and i know its not his fault, but its soo bad it makes me quit a game i like.

            So whats fair that i must feel pitty for the noobs how get scolded, when the reason i am quitting is i don’t have the patience to play with them. I scold people very seldom and when i do its not saying they noob, its more of, why did you not stun when i pinged… you saw me comming out the bush to gank?

          • CypherGate

            lol ok that makes better sense lol Ok your approach with him was a lot better than what i have heard and seen. The way you scolded him was like scolding one of your team mates who occasionally messed up. In all honesty i havent tried DOTA or any other such as HoN and LOL. Could never really get into it. Watched a few matches though. Maybe one day ill try it

        • Christopher Paredes

          I learned DotA by having my friends who introduced me to it scream at me for every little mistake. You adapt or you burn. That’s how it is.

      • Christopher Paredes

        For the vast majority of players, a regular pub match is the most serious thing that they will ever get to play. So yes, they treat it seriously.

        When they lose, their rating goes down too. That affects the quality of matches they will have in the future. So no, it’s not like they have nothing to lose in a random kick about.

    • Sargon

      This is a troll, right? Because Lionel Messi is a professional. I’ve tried playing with Lvl 10 people (I’m Lvl 2) and I was instantly trash talked in a similar way as Gavin above. That is like a CONFERENCE level footballer trash talking a non-league player. Really what we’re talking about here is that these people think they’re awesome and that is that.

      To be perfectly fair, this IS why the game groups you with people of the same level. Because, really, one “noob” can kill any match if there are nine other Lvl 10 players. Because that “noob” is going to be farmed for free gold, etc. Giving an unfair advantage.

      So while I agree you ought to play with your own people (at your own skill level), the vitriol leveled at new gamers is idiotic and pretty immature. At Lvl 2 I now play with Lvl 1 players every so often who are atrocious – but it’s my job to try to help them learn the game as well. So I’m going to lose? They’re just stats. And you’re NOT Lionel Messi.

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        Messi is paid millions to play a competitive sport.

        DOTA games are mostly played for no pay or glory (other than bragging rights). One can’t compare the two.

  • Alwyn Venter

    Completely agree with Gavin on this one. I picked this up during a game of Dota 2 as well. I played one game, was shouted and sworn at and decided not to play it again. If players get upset when the system matches them with players not of their skill, get some people together to form a team and don’t rely on the system to pair you. If you don’t, well…then be prepared to have new and unskilled people to be allocated to your team.

    It’s quite weird how Dota 2 and LoL players forces you to first learn the game before you can play with them. I play quite a bit of Starcraft 2 and with 2v2, 3v3 and 4v4 games, we often get paired with noobs…OFTEN. Shouting at them just puts you at a disadvantage so we guide them, tell them what we need them to build, share strategies etc. Easy…we also win often. By being paired with new players, helps you with adjusting your strategies on the fly as opposed to having a printed out strategy that you follow based on the other players that play with you. Overall, it just makes you a better gamer and, if you are willing to coach the other guy (the noob player), a better person too who is growing the community and fostering a friendly environment.

    Don’t even get me started on the MMR. I know it’s difficult but deal with it. It’s just a ranking. Get two accounts then if your MMR is so important to you until they launch unranked play.

    I love gaming…I love the industry and the players. I just feel that sometimes you need to have more patience and remember why you play games.

    • Sargon


  • Russki ZA

    Why do the articles on LazyGamer always rant about the DotA community? If you don’t like it, don’t play it. I’m also not a fan of the game or the community, even though I’m not a noob at the game, but I don’t keep whining about it.

    Seriously, every single DotA article here has to devolve into a crybaby post on how utterly horrible and insensitive the community is. It’s not your support group, it’s an extremely competitive game, which is obviously being taken very seriously by the vast majority of players.

    To get into the game, have a LAN with your friends to figure out how it should be played. Read guides. The game itself has a hectic learning curve and you need to invest (lots of) time into learning how to play properly.

    It’s a tough game where every mistake matters. The team simply can’t afford players with no experience or players who don’t want to bother with reading guides and learning the game first.

    • Honestly this is the first DOTA article I’ve written and it was due to reading that Neogaf post.

      Most of the other ones on here have been positive haven’t they?

      • Russki ZA

        There have been previous articles complaining about the old War3 twilight server too. If I recall correctly, and I might be mistaken, I think there have also been posts complaining about the HoN community too.

        It is evident that this is not a South African server problem, or only present in DotA2. It’s the same with all people in all games of this style: DotA2, HoN, LoL…. Why do you think that is? No matter how well your team plays, it only takes 1 newbie to bring everyone down, and people will get angry. It’s not a problem in a game like BF3. A newbie will die over and over, but your team will still cope. Teamwork and a good team is everything in DotA.

        I promise you, nay, I swear it before the old gods and the new, you will NEVER be a good player at DotA without reading guides and first practising against bots and friends. You will not become a good player by just jumping into the matchmaking system.

        • Nicholas Rowan

          The SA HoN community was horrific. I played Dota on the War3 and I now play Dota 2 and LoL and they can be quite bad but HoN was in it’s own league. People were swearing and cursing and shouting at you over the open mic constantly if you weren’t perfect. There was also limited servers for the SA HoN so you’re get all these “bros” hogging the servers for their “pro” games and kicking off peopel they didn’t thing were good enough. If you started a Noob friendly maych you would get people entering the game and verbally abuse you for wasting one of the SA server slots on a noob friendly match.

          TLDR; the SA HoN community was toxic to the point of self destruction.

      • Matthew Holliday

        the articles have been fairly neutral in terms of community oppinions, but there have been a few that have made mention of the aggresive nature of the community.
        and the comments section in most of the articles have been full of people insulting the community for being insulting.

  • Matthew Holliday

    Dota 2 has a massive learning curve.

    it is truly unfathomably huge.

    expect to be bad, expect to be REAL bad when you start.
    play bot games untill you are confident you atleast know how to do the basics, otherwise you are just asking to feel the hate.
    think of bot games as offline/story mode, remember the time when you played your first FPS and had no idea how to use the mouse and keyboard at the same time, can you imagine trying to play online befor playing beforhand? well its a similar concept.

    dont blame the community when youre not even prepared to learn the game befor playing it, your actions have consequences towards other peoples game and enjoyment.
    players are heavilly invested in the game, and with a game that relies so much on teamplay, having bad team mates can ruin your game, moreso than in a FPS or strategy game.

    ofcourse we are going to complain about russians and Br players joining our games, they join and complain about lag, then proceed to ruin our games.
    Russian players are more often than not, selfish and inconsiderate and Br players are often… horrible.
    there are region and language options for a reason, so that we have a better chance of playing with people with similar pings and languages that we can communicate with.

    if they are not prepared to speak english and deal with shitty ping, when joining an international server, that is their problem, they shouldnt use it to make our gaming experience horrible.

    we are not divisive, we just dont tolerate idiots.

    • “Russian players are more often than not, selfish and inconsiderate and Br players are often… horrible.”
      ^^ nice stereotype of an entire country of millions of people.. it’s not really acceptable hey

      • RinceDAmasterdebata

        Wow, my thoughts exactly. Seems SA has a long way to go still? No, THEY do.

      • Ringo

        Didn’t the above article just place a stereotype on an entire community?

      • Matthew Holliday

        Often the stereotypes hold true.
        When playing with russians on the EU servers, and even occasionally on the local server, I asked them why they play on EU west/east instead of the russian servers, and the answer I got was “because then I would have to play with other russians.”
        sure, not all are horrible, but at large, communication is, well, i wouldnt say impossible, and rather, infuriating, because they do communicate, if to just spam VOIP with them shouting in russian or text chat, in russian.

        trying to explain this to someone who is determined to believe, and portray all dota players as intolerable, inconsiderate and discriminative children, much like you guys have done with CoD, is impossible.
        you have to be part of the community to understand.

      • Christopher Paredes

        Except that the ones that go out of their way to play on a non-native server with higher ping, where they don’t speak the language (thereby creating a communication barrier), don’t represent the whole country. They represent a certain subset of inconsiderate players.

        And it’s those players that we are exposed to and become a valid subset from which we can predict our experiences with those same types of players.

        People don’t go into the Russian servers and blame them for not speaking English and calling them bad, etc. They are simply expecting that when they play on a US based server, they are going to get players who can speak English.

    • Trevor Davies

      So that means it’s okay to be a dick towards someone because they don’t meet your standards? Sorry, don’t buy it.

      • frikkenator

        The question is, how long are you going to keep playing a game where you get slaughtered and don’t manage to kill anyone in every single game?

        The game changes drastically when you reach higher levels and it really is no fun when you’re the noob on that level, I’ve been there.

        • Hammersteyn

          Right, but everyone has to start at the beginning. How else do you reach a higher level? Bots?

          • frikkenator

            That’s exactly my point, start at the beginning, don’t start with a buddy at level 50 gazillion.

            They’ve now added a whole training thing with a game mode specifically aimed at new players (limited hero mode) which has the easier heroes to get to know. Or ask your buddy to play a bot game with you so he can teach you along the way.

            The reason I don’t let new guys play with is because it’s going to suck for them. I don’t mind losing, but I’d prefer them to have a good experience and keep on playing.

          • Hammersteyn

            You might not seem to mind losing which is a great sacrifice in it self. Kudos to you. But is sure seems that the majority does.

          • frikkenator

            Yep, have to agree with that 🙁

            But on the other hand the new communication bans do work quite well, so the assholes are usually silenced after a game or 2.

        • Mossel

          And then you wait 5min to join a game and the game lasts 45min! And zero kills! Im still at that level, just decided to quit because I dont have time. (actually I just suck, but ssshhhh)

        • Trevor Davies

          I get that, and it’s not fun for the noob – I’ve been there too. But it’s how the other players deal with it that’s the question.

      • Matthew Holliday

        I didnt say anywhere that its ok to be a dick, i didnt say anywhere that its ok to insult people for not meeting my standards.

        I did say that I understand why players are so negative towards russian and Br players and that it would be nice if the russian/Br/new players gave a damn that they are ruining 40 minutes of someones life.

        sure the community is full of dicks, but what community isnt?

      • Christopher Paredes

        Yes it is, because that’s the established norm in DotA.

        Valve wants to clean the community up and make it friendly because they want more users buying hats, but the fact is that DotA originated back from a platform where you used to be able to whisper people who weren’t on your friendslist (meaning after the game you would get flamed, challenged to a 1v1, etc.), where people ran organized banlists to keep users with high pings and poor skill out of their game.

        Those features don’t exist in Dota 2 because Valve exists in the new era of gaming that is trying to make gaming more appealing for the mainstream. It’s a world where Heroes of the Storm doesn’t even have all chat, where Steam only lets you message people on your friendlist, and Valve gives people easy access to mute people.

        But DotA veterans are the vanguards of the old days where what you call toxicity is the norm. To us, we’re not toxic, cancerous, or a blight on the gaming community — YOU are the cancer. This isn’t a game for people to relax and unwind with. If you join queue, you should be coming prepared to win. And players who don’t do that are a handicap and are treated as such.

        If you feel the need to say that the community needs to be nicer and more welcoming, that’s a signal you don’t belong.

    • LordCaptainAwesomeness

      Are you listening to yourself?

      “if they are not prepared to speak english and deal with shitty ping, when joining an international server, that is their problem, they shouldnt use it to make our gaming experience horrible.

      we are not divisive, we just dont tolerate idiots.”

      Well besides the spelling that you need to improve on, you are proving Gavin’s Point. You guys are being dicks, just because someone is new to a game, or does not speak fluent English? Have a superiority complex much?

      • Matthew Holliday

        I hear what Im saying, it doesnt seem like you are.

        I dont care about fluent english, you pointed out my spelling and grammer already, spelling and grammar doesnt phase me.
        I dont care about noobs, i dont care about feeding.

        I dont insult players and feel i am one of the more respectful players within the community.

        what i do care about, is having a team mate that is not even making an effort.

        the judgement i throw out ingame isnt half of what I get from this community.

    • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

      Hey man, you and I usually see eye to eye but I have to slightly disagree here. I learnt and was pretty good against bots. I could hold my own. Then I joined online and was nowhere near the level of other players. I could do the basics. I understood where one pushes, holds back, sacrifices, lets go etc. But I was still ripped apart by the community because I wasn’t AS GOOD as they were. That is the problem. The community is merciless if you are fairly new.

    • CALeGrange

      Nice Article Gavin, and besides the team based mechanics that is so dependent on each other, isnt COD and all the other FPS games also pretty harsh if you don’t pull your weight in the team based maps??!!why aren’t they so relentless??besides that, why is communities like STARCRAFT 2 so inviting and welcoming, even when your he noobest, noob?

      in the end i think it comes down to valve that needs to bridge the gap…as it is truly one of the things that are making me want to play DOTA less and less…even in the reviews from other sites they talk about the steep curve and bullying from the other player.

    • CALeGrange

      Nice Article Gavin, and besides the team based mechanics that is so dependent on each other, isnt COD and all the other FPS games also pretty harsh if you don’t pull your weight in the team based maps??!!why aren’t they so relentless??besides that, why is communities like STARCRAFT 2 so inviting and welcoming, even when your he noobest, noob?

      in the end i think it comes down to valve that needs to bridge the gap…as it is truly one of the things that are making me want to play DOTA less and less…even in the reviews from other sites they talk about the steep curve and bullying from the other player.

      • Matthew Holliday

        those communities are more tolerable, because your actions, if someone doesnt perform well, they have no affect on your personal performance.

        if your whole team, in CoD, or battlefield, is 0-10, you can still get your 30-0 score.

        however in dota, if your whole team or one person in your team is 0-10, then that has an effect on how you play, because the team mechanics are so much more intense, even at the lowest level.

    • CALeGrange

      Nice Article Gavin, and besides the team based mechanics that is so dependent on each other, isnt COD and all the other FPS games also pretty harsh if you don’t pull your weight in the team based maps??!!why aren’t they so relentless??besides that, why is communities like STARCRAFT 2 so inviting and welcoming, even when your he noobest, noob?

      in the end i think it comes down to valve that needs to bridge the gap…as it is truly one of the things that are making me want to play DOTA less and less…even in the reviews from other sites they talk about the steep curve and bullying from the other player.

    • CrasH

      You all miss the point… I feel your pain… i have been there and i agree.

    • CrasH

      You all miss the point… I feel your pain… i have been there and i agree.

    • CrasH

      You all miss the point… I feel your pain… i have been there and i agree.

  • Hammersteyn

    This game was on my to do list. But now I think this game and the old players who shun the new players can go fuck themselves. There’s some nice 5v5 action for you.

    • Mossel

      hahaha! 5v5 action, thats the best type.

  • Mossel

    I tried playing Dota once. After waiting 5min to find a match I realised that in this time I could’ve completed an entire team death match on cod. Heck, I could’ve finished two. I just dont have the time for Dota, although it was fun that one saturday I completely threw away.

    • Hammersteyn

      I would now rather play COD than DOTA, my opinion of this game is so low now.

      • Mossel

        Lets put it this way, if I didn’t have a girlfriend and a job I probably wouldv’e become addicted and ruin my life!

  • Johan du Preez

    Playing a few hundred games and having the same issue with international players gets very old and grinds at you if you play allot. I personally have nothing against international players but it annoys me that they join a SA server and then the entire game complain about latency etc. and refuse to speak english even though most of them can.

    This gets old very quick if you play allot and will piss any sane man off. I don’t mind noobs if your new and want to team up let me know and il try and teach you how to play. Its actually a easy game and you can learn to play well in under a week.

  • eXpZA

    Every now and then I load up DOTA2 and play online, just to mess with people. I don’t intentionally play badly, I just do whatever I think needs doing. I giggle like crazy at how upset people get. Again, I’m not trolling or anything – I just play to the knowledge I have – and boy, the hate I get is paramount to the worst criminal in the world.

    • RinceDAmasterdebata

      You sir, I would shake hands with. Who do they think they are to speak to anyone like that?

    • We used to do that with the original Warcraft III DOTA – we’d troll people who were being douchebags by getting them killed in stupid ways. I think that’s the most I’ve ever been sworn at in my life.

      • CrasH

        i remeber players like you…. yea… trolling…
        Ginne use that line the next game i am noob at… i am just trolling them…


        • Most of the time I played properly, but if anyone was being a dick we would go out of our way to make their game as annoying as possible. Haven’t played since those days though, so haven’t even touched DOTA 2 yet.

          • CrasH

            Don’t worry, i have done the same many times.

      • RinceDAmasterdebata

        Have a Bells!

    • Christopher Paredes

      So you spend your free time intentionally trying to upset people, ruin their games… and THEY are the dicks?

  • Mathias

    DOTA is for real MEN. Childish, stupid, brave-behind-a-monitor MEN!

  • Gamer

    Deleted my DOTA2 – There are much, much more out there to choose from. Who in the right mind wants to be insulted by a 17 year old freckled freak….. (Oops guess I just did the same)…. Oh well at least I can delete MY game.

  • Ringo

    Whatever, man! That just like your opinion, man!

    I play casual (withtout friends) only, I love it. Have from the start.

  • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

    So, like.. if you win, do you like..get prizes and shit? Like a fridge? Is that why the community is so foul?

    • Trevor Davies

      Your e-peen gets an extra cm!

    • Hammersteyn

      Maybe you get a chicken or a duck if you win? Would that make the community Fowl?

      • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)


      • Unavengedavo

        Well if they got a chicken, wouldn’t that mean they are just in it for the cock? 😛

        • Hammersteyn


  • CrasH

    The point of DOTA is 5 people playing as a team and a part of that is communication, so i don’t care about race, gender and location, but i do care that if we need to try coordinate something the guy/gal does nothing and then says cyka, when he/she dies.

    The worst part is, its not the newbies fault or the people ranting, its that they need a type of rating system, and if they say they have one, well then they need to fix it… or remove the stats from the game totally cause then there will be less flaming.

    Till that really comes into play, you either need friends with 2 accounts, one to play there games on steam on and a second to play dota 2 with you or you must learn to swim really really fast.

    • Hammersteyn

      So it’s like the English Chanel and the water is below freezing? but if we never get our feet wet we will never learn to swim 🙁
      So we need to stick with the Bots over at the kiddies pool?

      • CrasH

        Its more like water polo… and if you cant swim well or know the rules or even the basics, your just another person spalshing water in your teams face.

    • Hammersteyn

      So it’s like the English Chanel and the water is below freezing? but if we never get our feet wet we will never learn to swim 🙁
      So we need to stick with the Bots over at the kiddies pool?

  • asc1an

    To address the point of Russians, since nobody else did:
    Yes, I’ve complained about them. I think everybody does at some stage. It’s not that they are bad at Dota, in fact the majority of them actually seem to be decent players, but even 5 good players are likely to be defeated by a merely decent, cohesive, and effectively communicating team. This is what annoys people that play with foreign people who, for the large part, A) have mics, B) Refuse to speak any English at all or communicate in any other way with the team by way of using pings. Bad teamplay loses matches faster than feeding. I’m not against foreign people playing on our servers, I just want them to be better at communicating. But there is almost no practical way to enforce that, so I guess we just have to live with it.

    As for the rest of the article:
    1. Your friends suck.
    2. Man up and play. If people flame you for being n00b: Mute them. I get the feeling (and I might be wrong here, but in my experience this is true) that you’re still at the bottom end of the player pool in terms of skill, and, again in my experience, those players tend to be more acerbic than the norm.

    Otherwise: My experience with Dota 2 so far (800 hours in) is that the community does have it’s trolls, but it’s way better than LoL and far, FAR better than old W3 Dota. In fact, it’s been a while since I’ve played with people who really annoy me. Not saying the article is BS, just that in Dota 2 Your Mileage May Vary.

    • I’m as far down the skill level tree as you get and I could easily man up and take the abuse. It really doesn’t affect me at all, but why should I? It’s not the way I would choose to spend my downtime.

      • asc1an

        You wrote a whole article about the abusive/trolling/vitriolic/uncaring-towards-new-players community and it doesn’t even really affect you? I’m confused now, Gavin. Tell you what, though, if you want some dudes to play with that don’t take this Dota 2 thing too seriously, invite me on Steam and we’ll have a couple of games along with my friends. We laugh at our mistakes, we are welcoming to the uninitiated and we like winning, but play for fun 🙂 Steam nick is the same as the one on Disqus.

        • Slade Boender

          *cough* 27 deaths *cough*

          Edit: Those were mine. I was very drunk.

        • The point of the article is to raise awareness of an unspoken problem. I’m regretting it now because I’m getting all these DOTA invites ;).

          I’ll reinstall the game and follow the advice here to see if it makes any difference to the experience

      • Christopher Paredes

        Then you made the right choice, this isn’t the game for you.

  • Jonathan C Dickinson

    You are mostly lucky you got kicked from the SA game. SA players are nearly always awesome, but the DOTA end of it is pure immature vitriol scum – stay away (that’s a stereotype, I do know *some* rational players from here). I play[ed] purely international because of the shortsightedness that we sadly have in our community.

    I would also like to point out that Russians are actually very good at the game: although they have an extremely different and conflicting game-style to the international one (one word would be “aggressive”, but that doesn’t really sum it up). I have joined many games with Russians, adapted my style, and have completed dominated because of it.

    If you get the idea that I might be the helpful type of player, I really am. I eventually left the game behind because the community started dragging me into its mentality: I started losing patience with IRL friends and I decided that enough is enough.

    Honestly, I think the format of MOBA will always encourage this hatred. Some players are better at keeping control of their patience, but MOBAs will get the better of them at some point.

  • Dota 2 is really a fun game. But the community is very brutal.

    It’s hard, but I try to ignore them. I’m not a pro and people are hard on the Noob players. and I can understand someone that comes in his first time playing the game to quite after one or two matches.

    I feel if you play with random people, that you shouldn’t get angry or through a hissy fit over the game and how other people play. If you want to play in a perfectly organized game, then you should join a clan and play with them. But if you going to play with random, then ppl should just chill out.

  • CypherGate

    DOTA 2 suppose to be that… a GAME. So im not sure why they need to attack noob players etc etc its really bad. I remembered playing Race Driver GRID online way back and I was quite an experienced player at that, but yet I got kicked out for no reason or got refused to join guys with a bit more experience than me. Its bad bad. My brother started playing Gears of war online and obviously his a noob just getting into the game and they keep kicking him out there games. Since then he didnt bother going online again. This happens all over I guess. Its pathetic.

  • geggy

    Gavin Mannion

    There is fair comment in your article, but there are real (solvable) programme issues that aren’t being focused on here.
    People getting very abusive is really a symptom of the problems, not the cause.

    As I see it, system problems / limitations that could fix the frustrations include:

    1. Voluntary difficulty setting filtering searches
    2. Transparent matching criterion (justifying the match ups)
    3. Ability to region / language (questions to validate) lock search for games
    4. Harsher penalty for reports made and investigated

    Apart from that… bud you need better mates, that is ridiculous that they wouldn’t play you up to at least “reasonable”.

    • Slade Boender

      I like where your heads at dude, my sentiments exactly

  • Tero

    Dota 2 best

  • V3N0M

    Ok, I am an avid Dota 2 player. Around 800 hours(not bragging, just to indicate that I’ve played my fair share). Yes the community at time can be extremely brutal although I’ve generally have been lucky enough not to have that. Personally I think those friends of yours were being stupid, honestly. If you invite someone then you help/play with them. Even if its bots. I myslef has recently got my brother into Dota 2 and have been playing with him as a “support” just letting him play as I “try” to teach him what I know. (Which has been fun)

    Onto the Meat and potatoes. Although I don’t endorse what people say I think in some respects it’s a natural reaction to multi region gaming. In dota 2, if you have a high ping you are going to have a bad time. If you now lose your effectiveness due to not being able to last hit or secure kills you are creating a more difficult situation for your team. It is just nonsensical to join a server with a high ping and make it hard for yourself and most of the time hard for your team.
    With languages, it’s not as bad but is still an extremely large part of the game. The biggest part of your team playing effectively together is communication. Something that, mostly, cannot be achieved by players not being able to communicate via chat/voice. Before this gets too long, basically if you are from another region with a ping disadvantage as well as an alternate language then you are making it extremely hard for yourself and your team. Ofcourse there’s nothing you can do about it so I just take it how it is and hope the next game is better. Just a quick example would be I joined a game solo and found out that i was with 4 non-english speakers(not to point fingers) and even though i requested them to speak english and they REPLIED they refused to speak english and chatted and spoke in their language. This sort of rendered me useless. Ofcourse i can just carry on doing what I see needs to be done but I felt as if I played solo which is not what Dota 2 is about. It is experiences like this that create a sour feeling. This then gets expressed unfavorably in public and it becomes what “everyone” thinks.

    Anyways, I am sorry that you have got to this point and that the select(probably most vocal) few that encompass the scum of the community have caused you to leave Dota 2. Maybe sometime down the line you’ll give it another go.

  • SKYdawg

    This article makes me sad because it is true. I don’t think its entirely fair to blame the game. This is a very common social problem, and not a game design problem. “DOTA 2 Players are a blight on…” might have been fairer. I nitpick on the title only because that is what draws readers.

    Games like DOTA and LoL, unfortunately, breed and allow worse behaviours than seen most games. This is partly because they are not “just a game”; at least not in the way we tend to think of games. They were never designed to be pick-up-and-play, no consequence, only fun activities. Yet people seem think they are the same construct and treat them like that just because they use the same medium (a PC). Games like DOTA and LoL are COMPETITIVE multiplayer environments into which people invest great deals of time and emotion. People play DOTA to win. And I am not supporting the nasty and exclusive behaviour of DOTA players. I hate it. I strongly believe that whether one is winning or losing, they should be having a positive experience. But it is rarely the case.

    People can be so, incredibly awful when they are losing anything. Not just in DOTA, but any highly-competitive game that ever existed. Anyone who has played competitive sport will know this. These types of games inspire physical violence far more often than any other leisure activity.

    see, and

    You need not look any further than the sports, or comments pages of a newspaper when any of SA’s national teams lose a match to see that its not just drunk sports fans who express the same kind of thinking.

    So why is the DOTA community so much worse? Well, we tend to think of games as being just for fun. Single player games (from Mario to BioShock) are largely about the player gaining skills that will allow them to overcome all the obstacles presented by the game. Players know that IF they play well, they WILL win. Failure is their own fault, and nobody else’s and thus they can almost guarantee a win. This could form an association of fun is equal to winning. But in DOTA, players are restricted to having 1/10th of the control over the outcome (10 human players per game). They can lose DESPITE their best efforts. Players can struggle to have fun when they are losing..

    To players who haven’t learned that they can’t always win, or that playing a team game means relinquishing that control, it can be frustrating. They need something to blame when losing, and it is easy to blame the loss on the player who made the most mistakes. Mistakes in DOTA are especially punishing, because the set-backs translate into large disadvantages later in the game.

    And unlike organised sport and teams, the ability to kick out a less skilled player is easy: click the kick button. Couple that ability with steam’s relative anonymity, and what is effectively a consequence free environment, players will tend to do whatever they can to maximise their control over the outcome of any match. And being a dick is an easy way to do this 🙁 People just aren’t nice.

    I play with a few people who sigh, but also laugh through the games where we get stomped. We do exist, but are very much an endangered species, and I see them becoming corrupted by the bad behaviour blight…that makes me sad too.

    • RinceDAmasterdebata

      Nicely put. The thing is, in real world sports (as in say, rugby) if you are a dick to people, you will get a reputation that is not so easily washed off. As you point out, the anonymity in online gaming is what allows these sucky people to swear and go on like fools. DOn’t succumb to them. It is a pity, one gets far more out of helping someone out, and have them thank you, than you will ever get from kicking a player etc. Thumbs up to you!

      • Christopher Paredes

        Pros with name recognition have no problem flaming all the time on stream in public games. There are vicious mean professional sports players as well, and it doesn’t affect their marketability if they are good enough.

    • DotaNoob

      I sigh every now and then and then feel bad about it 🙂 Silent Rage amongst us is the funniest but the group of guys I play with aren’t abusive and we have a lot of fun 🙂 Its a great game!

  • Daniel Keevy

    I’m surprised Valve hasn’t stepped in yet.

  • Gerhard Davids


  • DotaNoob

    Love Dota 2, Id never played another MOBA type game until I played DOTA 2. Trick is to listen to those willing to help, ignore the abusive guys, make mates with some good people get onto voice coms and soon you will be having a great time. If your sensitive, insecure then its probably not your game, but once your in, its a wonderfully complex ride that I’m happy I took the time to get to know. If your someone who’s doesn’t like “down votes” stick to what makes you happy just don’t play Dota 2.

  • Rudi de Lange

    Dota is not a plug n play game (you know what I mean). You have to at least play through the tutorial. It’s not point and click like CoD of BF. There’s a lot you need to learn and you cannot expect to play your first game vs real people because your mother will get called all sorts of nasty things. When your mate said you need to play vs bots, he was right.

  • knibu

    Oh look a lazy attempt at a polarizing article constructed to get more hits on the website!

    • We’ve received a ton of feedback on the article but no one has tried to deny this problem exists.

      • Christopher Paredes

        It’s not about it existing, it’s about whether it’s a problem.

  • KomboKitten

    Some players like helping beginners, like myself. I want to make more tips vlogs etc. As for being in games with abusers, just make a party with 4 other people you know aren’t assholes 😛

    • Matthew Holliday

      new/casual players that dont consider themselves a part of the community, never play with 4 others.
      instead of making an effort to experience that friendly side of the community, they write articles about how bad the community is.

      • I actually made quite an effort which the community took as more reason to hurl abuse. There is a problem with dota (and all moba) games that the players should look at

        • KomboKitten

          Made an effort with? Problems are everywhere, let’s focus on solutions. I don’t have this experience you speak of when I play.

          • That makes you the second person to say the problem doesn’t exists. I’ll reinstall DOTA and record it to show the problem definitely exists for you two

          • KomboKitten

            I just typed above ‘problems are everywhere’. That is not a denial that the problem you are reporting on exists. I’ve been playing dota compulsively since Feb’08, I know what it’s like. But, I play in a way now that minimizes that effect, almost always nullifying it ^_^

    • hairyknees

      Yeah! I just want the community to grow and <3 each other 😛

  • Saz

    “So this game has become so divisive that it is now seen as acceptable to
    post on public forums that you don’t want people of other races and
    languages to play with you in your game?”

    What has this got to do with races? Do you mean to ask whether people actually need to communicate in Dota 2? Yes they do, so speaking the same language is important. God forbid I partake in activity that I cannot invite the rest of the world to join in with.

  • hairyknees

    Gavin, how dare you single out my game! 😛

    But seriously, yes, a horrible horrible community. I don’t think I would have stuck it out if I didn’t start learning the genre with friends of mine. We were all noob, but noob together. I learnt the genre from HoN though, which I honestly think is a much worse community!

    The reason your friends said no was because quite simply, they are higher skiller players (more experienced), and they get matched against opponents of the same skill bracket. The reason they don’t want you to play with them is yes, you might be a beginner and bring the team down, but your opponents will single you out and make your game experience shitty. Thats why I didn’t play with my beginner friends initially, I tell them to play solo or with other beginners so that they can be matched against people of their skill level. I don’t want to scare them away from the game, I want them to learn it and love it. After they have played a good few games, I honestly don’t mind playing with them.

    Anyhow, Dota 2 now has a proper training mode, walking any beginner through the basics. Maybe you should give that a try and then see if your opinion of the game remains the same 🙂

    If you want people to play with, I really don’t mind playing with you. I have introduced a good few people to the game and gone through the painful teething process with them. Be warned though, if we play together, the opponents will be as experienced as I am, and they will know to single you out as the game progresses 😛 so its something you do at your own risk!

    • I’ve received calls saying that there is a new training mode. I’m going to see if that helps but it doesn’t actually fix the problem of the hostile community

      • hairyknees

        Yeah unfortunately not. Every game does have their bad eggs 🙁

        Perhaps a viable idea would be to reach out to the readers who have had horrible experiences with Dota 2 and form up a 5 player party? I know Erwin also gave up thanks to the community. I would be more than happy to answer any questions, queries, etc on the game and play with anybody who is willing to try it out and learn. It would be best if it were in a 5 man party though. If you or anybody would like to add me, my steam nick is hairyknees2605

        The International is coming up too. The best of the best teams and players fighting for a HUGE prize pool. After learning the game, maybe check one or two of those casts out 🙂 it might change your opinion a little and get you excited for the game itself.

        • offendedpuppet

          Yeah best is to get a few ppl you know and play with them. Problem is if someone in the group has a high MMR the group will be matched against more skilled players and that means you will get stomped…HARD. No fun in that.

  • hairyknees

    After my last post, last bit of advice: Stick it out. Nobody likes being moaned or bitched it. I assure you though, as you slowly get better and better, you start to love the a game a heck of a lot more!

  • offendedpuppet

    Lulz. I felt exactly like Gavin 2 months ago. Deleted this spawn of Satan and vowed I would never touch it again……alas im at 400hrs and ticking. What i learned though is don’t take it too personally. Most of these players are kids who think they are the next Tiger Woods (maybe a bad choice..haha) of Dota.

    • Lol I think a lot of guys would love to be tiger woods. Even if that life came with having to play golf 😉

      • offendedpuppet

        Lol. Yeah tiger is a hard worker you got to give him props for that.

  • Sakkie

    Yeah had exactly the same experience and u know whats sad. I want to play dota!!!lol have also waited upto 40min for a game! and have been kicked into the LP pool for learning the game.

  • insulted dota player

    Let me begin by admitting i’m a passionate dota player and have been for years. I would also like to say that i have nothing against noobs who are eager to learn, as there are no other place to start learning dota. Now i want to make it clear that, as you can expect, this article is deeply insulting to me and many others who share my passion for dota. So raise your pussy shield, as you should have done before entering the dota community, because i feel it would be unfair to not complete your rant from my perspective.

    i’ve always seen the dota community as a hyperbolic time chamber for emotional and intellectual training. you don’t just expect 4 people to waste an hour of their lives to teach you what you’re not willing to learn in your own free time. people like you, gavin (the author of this article), deserve to be verbally assaulted for being such a lazy, insecure and self-centered newb. i mean how delusional must you be to walk into the dota community and expect people to applaud you for being able to download the game and double click on the icon? then you continue to defend Brazilians and russians who are too lazy to tick the right server and language before queuing for a game, committing to an hour of intense teamwork with 4 other people who don’t speak their language in a intellectually exerting activity where they can’t contribute because of their ridiculous latency.

    Great that you realized you aren’t not suited for the dota community, but writing an article about how shameful it is to belong to the community is unacceptable. especially from someone who doesn’t even have enough experience to claim he understands the basic game mechanics.

    i agree that there’s a lot of room for improvement in terms of the average maturity and manners of the community, but you should grow some balls before entering the lion’s den and then publicly insulting us under the pretense that you possess the necessary maturity to not be in danger of an emotional breakdown after rightfully being insulted by a stranger.

    • Rightfully insulted by a stranger? You my lovely friend are the problem, simply telling me that you don’t have time or don’t want to train someone is fine, abuse is not

      • All about dota

        Now I’m confused. At first I thought you were being sincere but now I think you’re just trolling. Dota 2 beta was my first ARTS and I definitely didn’t have any experience even remotely resembling yours. Let me add that at the time there was no tutorial or training; i jumped straight into matchmaking. The community had its share of trash talkers and ragers but where do you go for competitive play devoid of testosterone? I’ll repeat it again, grow a pair.

        • Trust me I’ve been through enough internet abuse to not let it get to me, but not everyone is like me and there is no reason for a community to act the way DOTA does. It’s not trolling it’s calling out a problem and hoping (without expectation) that it may help resolve the problem

        • Hammersteyn

          I’m gonna play Dota just to troll the hell out of players, bring it on.

    • insulted dota player

      i just want to make it clear that I believe no hate should be spewed in the game, and i do everything i can in every game to stop team conflict and encourage others to do their best and have fun while improving. the problem i have is that you publicly insult our community, and that alone is the reason i posted this comment.

  • All about Dota

    Dota is a game very dependent on team coordination, the prime requisite is communication. Having team members whom you can’t communicate with is an extreme handicap. Losing a team member due to disconnect is also a big problem, one that comes from having to connect to foreign servers. Your friend was probably trying to spare you the abuse also. The game is a deep time investment and with that comes deep passion. You’re going to need a thick hide at this level of play.

  • TheDesimis

    Singling out DotA 2 is a little unfortunate as there are many other communities where people rage and flame at you. WoW, LoL, HoN, CoD, Battlefield, any MMO basically. You have to understand that DotA is a team game, if your team has capable skills and you don’t, its basically 4v5. The training is there for a reason, sure its not enough, but anymore added to the tutorial would be ludicrous, at that point you need to have friends that don’t care. I for one don’t mind helping noobs. Most people flame and reject noobs because they care far too much for their win/loss ratio and want to look as good as possible however at the same time, you gotta realize, I had one friend help me for 2 years before I was even considered “good enough” from higher level players and that was on DotA 1 already. Another thing, if a Russian joins my game and cannot communicate with me, why would I not have the right to complain? I am on a South African server, it is expected that at least English or Afrikaans be spoken on it. DotA is a game that requires communication between team mates, if that doesn’t happen, you lose, simple as that. Games like this are not easy for newcomers, it literally depends on your patience to work at it, if you’re not willing to put in the time to learn on your own, why should anyone help you in the first place? There are guides, there are many people willing to help. I’m sorry you had to experience the worst of it but at the same time, you need to put in way more effort for any MOBA game in general.

  • SlasherZA

    Amen – DOTA is the worst community – it makes Counterstrike look like a support group!

  • Lib

    Gavin Mannion, you sir are not only a noob, but one that is not aware of his ignorance.
    I played the original DOTA for a long time before I moved to DOTA 2, and lets just say that the DOTA 2 community is unicorns and rainbows.

    You completely misconstrued your experience. DOTA is a team based game, without carefully co-ordinated team work, the right skills, build and counter heroes your team will lose. So you see noobs cant possibly know any of that, and generally suck. One noob on a team can lose the game for their team as they get killed a lot by the other team and each kill grants them gold so they can build items which will give them a major advantage, so generally in the community we like noobs to first play a few games against bots of increasing difficulty till the master the basic mechanics of the game.

    The reason region locking is good is because if someone disconnects it runes the match, 5v4 instead of 5v4. International players have a few issues: Lag, delay, and language barrier.

    If you lag or delay in DOTA you will lose, you need to be very quick. If your team-mates cant speak your language how do you co-oridinate attacks? Request help? Request the use of a team mates skill or spell? Form strategy?

    So just because you couldn’t bother to learn the basics of the game required to play online and you gave up quickly don’t slander DOTA, I get the feeling you’re always that half job kind of guy. The rubbish you espouse in your article makes it fairly clear how little you understand about the game concepts. Its like tasting 2 wines you don’t like and then saying wine is rubbish.

    Sure the community is hard on people sometimes, but that’s because the game itself is hard and requires a prerequisite training time before you will be hailed as a proper player. Which is what makes it so rewarding. In DOTA you will lose, often, but you will also win and its always worth those games you pull off properly. And if so many people managed to get past the training phase and become proper players you should ask yourself why cant you? If so many others can manage it, how come you couldn’t, you arent a special little princess, you probably got flamed for being an over entitled noob. The new guy with an attitude. Frankly if you cant handle some flaming over the Internet, you’re gonna have a bad time.

    • I love how all the DOTA defenders defend the abuse and act like they are the bigger person and all macho like… I know the game is hard and has a steep learning curve. I also knew the community was dedicated and teamwork is important.

      That is why I told people I was a noob so that I didn’t ruin anyone’s game. To then be subjected to abuse is bizarre. No one wants to ruin your game and I’m not saying your game is the problem. The problem is the community who act like over entitled children who feel superior to others because they can play the game and others can’t.

      I could get past the training phase and abuse and become a solid player but I have no desire to enter a community that treats new people as badly as DOTA does.

      If you think it’s just me who feels this way then maybe you should take the time to read the over 200 comments here which generally agree that their is a problem in the community

      • Degaron

        Im a Passionate Dota player myself but im not part of this Degraded community, rather then Ranting at new players try to help them along without Insulting there mothers, nationality and race.

        This article is a fact and is spot on.

      • Lib

        I hardly find the community to be bad, its the Internet people flame all the time.
        And also if there is a noob in a game that Im in I’ve found players to almost always help them and support them so as that they don’t feed the other team. I was trained by I guy in the pubs initially before there even was a tutorial.

        And if there is a flamer who is excessive I also find that even his team will tell him stfu, usually anyone who is raging is bad for the team in general as they inhibit team work and piss people off. Even now valve instituted reward and punishment systems for communications. So sure maybe you bumped into a few crappy players, it happens. It also happens that you can find some really awesome and helpful people.

        I was never once bothered by the community, its the Internet, just ignore the trolls and flamers they are in every community. I’d wager since if you played again you’d find it isnt as bad as you thought. Just be tougher man! Prove those other guys wrong.

      • Lib

        ALSO if you’re having a tough time pick a female name for your profile. 😛 The guys will trip over themselves to help you lol. Hmmmm dat grammar in my post >.<

  • Harvey P Cheesewinkle

    Not that I condone verbal abuse in games, but for any game that’s heavy on communication…yeah, I would imagine not being region locked could be quite frustrating. If it’s all about strategy and you can’t understand each other, there’s a serious issue.

    I can only imagine trying to do raid bosses in WoW with people who only know their native language. Exercise in futility unless you could work out some kind of communication system before the encounters.

  • string_slinger

    Heh, heh – funny thing. My wife and I (both gaming veterans) decided to see what the hype was about and give DOTA 2 a go. We each decided to learn one character 1st, and we started, very 1st game, against bots. We did okay, played a few more to learn the character more, and then dived in to human team vs bots in matchmaking. We got verbally abused in a vs bots match! And we won it for our team too.

    Quite seriously, before anything else I got foully raged at for my lane choice – the very 1st decision in the game – in what is effectively the 2nd tier of the training process. It continued. So this ‘train first then come play with us’ rubbish is exactly that – rudeness has become part of the DOTA 2 culture. The DOTA 2 community is 90% rude little pricks who have watched ‘The International’ and now fantasize about being pro at the expense of everyone. If you watched ‘The International’ and took proper notes, you’d see iG and the other pro’s not once behaving like this this.

    We gave DOTA 2 a good go for about 2 weeks, and have now left it wholesale. I’m all for competitive gaming, but gaming is supposed to be fun 1st. DOTA 2, you can keep it…

    P.S. Gavin, I’m also up for casual games if anyone wants to have fun. It’s still installed, I’m Spybait on steam…

    • Twisty

      Wow Gavin might be regretting this article with all the reading you have had to endure 😉 . I have played dota for many years and I love it, unfortunately I do agree that the community can be ugly and it’s sad because it really detracts from an amazing game. I must admit I have not read every post but I wanted to leave my 2 cents at the risk of repeating what has already been said.

      If I had to give a tip I would definitely suggest you play many many bot games ( I know you said you found it boring and the true fun of dota is definitely playing with people) but those bots are not half bad. I have a new friend and while we play some match making games I always encourage him to play bot games with me so he can have fun and do what he likes with no pressure and simply put learn. As a side I actually quite like playing against bots for the same reason I can do what I like and play however I like without “pro”/”know it alls” screaming at me.

      Just with regard to match making, I play at quite a high level (in SA) and I must say I find the match making ok. I find myself enjoying the games more and more, win or loose, as long as they are competitive. I have played the match making at lower levels though and I must admit they can be very unbalanced but then again a slight difference in skill or experience makes a big difference in dota.

      What I’d suggest is try find some friends to play with (although in due coarse they will probably rage you too 😉 ie my friends haha) and if not bots like I said.

      My biggest tip however is this… at the top left of you screen you can drop down a list of all the players in the game, then next to each name is a speaker, if you click it it mutes all verbal and text based communication from that person. That is what I do, haters will hate, half the time I have someone I can clearly see is much worse than me screaming at me and all I do is mute them. Let them sit there moaning all day long while you go about your fun lil game. Even if you have to mute the whole team, Yes its a game of communication but someone shouting at you isn’t really communication anyway.

      Hope you have some better times and maybe just maybe a follow up post in a year of how amazing dota is 😀

  • Fluffy Faced Fool

    Nothing new about online games and bad tempered immature players. WOW had them in spades, hell Quake Tournaments on wire play (pre Internet) were the same. If you think that’s bad try ‘professional’ sports like English football leagues. Mix competitive play with bad attitudes and under developed people skills and away you go. Do what I do, turn the voice sound off, ignore the penis drawings on the minimap. And ignore anything other than good intel in chat. have fun by learning the game and winning the match by practicing really hard in live matches.. Forget the bots. Oh and use the filter to remove any nationally centred irritations. (Sorry Russia and E.Europe but shit, people skills!). I always smile the broadest when my 12 year old daughter hands the thugs their asses.. If only they knew 🙂

  • Beanz

    This is bullshit!

    There are plenty of sites out there to help people. Spend some time watching Purge’s videos. What you don’t seem to get is that 4 other players in your team have now wasted an hour of their time because you cant be bothered to learn how to play and just want to jump in and ruin the rest of your team’s experience. Unfortunately this game punishes you for being a bad player..once you’ve fed the other team there is very little chance of a comeback

    • DOTA_fan


  • The Rape Train

    Lol mabye its because they don’t want to spend an entire game teaching someone the basics only to have you feed and have the game lost? Play against ai 100 times first nab

  • Andrew

    You’re missing the point, dota is a game where a word noob shouldn’t exist. Everyone knows if you got a noob in a 5v5, it automatically equates to 4v5 meaning u lose the game regardless of how pro you are, you just can’t substitute two heroes all by yourself. This is the greatest feat and downfall of moba games, no matter how good you are, you can’t win if the team you’re playing with is full of intellectually degraded russians (sip of vodka 8 year old kid to sleep better? vodka solution to everything in russia) or just stupid and or noob ppl.

  • faggotretard

    Unless you’ve actually experience the Peruvian plague, you have no right to criticize it. On top of being awful players, they can’t even communicate with English players and, most of the time, have extreme latency.

    They are the Russians of the West.

    Dota is a TEAM game. Communication is VERY important. When you get some fucking jaja-brain on your team, communication becomes impossible. Got two? Good luck. An average game of dota takes anywhere between 30-50 minutes. That is a rather long investment. Losing because you have a brain atrophied plebeian for a third wheel is not something most players come to tolerate.

    I mean, it really is a rage-inducing experience. You are going to sit there for half an hour yelling at some fucking incompetent Peruvian. You can’t coach them, you can’t reason with them, and you can’t abandon the game because low priority means even more games full of Peruvians.

  • Le Gamer Semiprofezzional

    You sir are the most direct and respectable person on the internet.

  • Netraam

    The problem is not that noobs ruin the fun. Players are always grouped with players of similar strength. You will never play a game and be abused when you win it. It is always in the losing games that people start to abuse one another. This is because they are immature and cannot stand to lose, even worse they can’t bare to look at their own failings so they decide to blame the loss (of the team) on one of their teammates.
    Only very rarely can you really blame a single player for losing and this is when they are intentionally feeding. (when you are doing this you know it)
    So take it with a grain of salt, they are just kids.

  • Miguel

    Jokes aside, I must say that I’ve experienced this and it’s begun to creep into the way I play- complaining about Russians, being aggro with noobs etc- and I hate it.

    I think online games in general reflect the inbred stupidity and ignorance that affect so many people. I’m quite a good player now, and don’t find myself on the receiving end of abuse, but I find myself less and less interested in playing games like Dota 2 because they reward people for being antisocial, dickheaded c*nts. What are we telling the next generation- that if a team effort is going poorly, we should pick on the weakest people in the team and destroy their confidence and interest? If there is one good thing I can say about the online Dota 2 community, it is that they expose what lies beneath the thin layer of “shy geekiness” that many gamers use as a way to avoid any real social contact with the world. Historically, gaming was a way for us shy kids who may not have fit in so well in society to find a sense of community. But it feels more like an outlet of rage for those who have always wanted to find someone smaller and weaker than them but simply couldn’t- at least not in the real world…

  • fatehasfans

    Dota is a great game. However, a few things ruin the experience. 1). Noobs/Stupid people (if you are going to play a game for the first time at least have the decency to learn it offline first instead of landing your team-mates in a world of hurt and expect them to carry you as you keep saying “what are the buttons?” Its a big no no – and Dota 2 is rife with this. 2). Abuse – yes you need a hard skin but lets be honest this is normal now, as tragic as that is – we are bastards to one another when we want, this will not change so we must deal with it. 3). Leavers/Afkers/Deliberate feeders – again there is no means to punish these people who can freely ruin a game at will.
    All in all you will be lucky to experience a good game with all members playing up to the end etc and little abuse around 1 times out of 10. Which is sad because it is a fantastic game AND IT’S FREE!

  • John Roscoe

    Agree with you Lazygamer EXCEPT I do want to point out one thing:

    Most disconnectors, troll players, and people who don’t want to work with the team usually come from outside the US and then join US servers. I am not saying this because I think it’s “acceptable” to slame “other races.” I am saying this because everytime you get, let’s say a Russian player, when you’re playing in the US rooms you can almost garauntee he will either abandon the game, completely ignore his team, or not grasp the fact that he’s the only one who can read Cyrillic type. This has nothing to do with being a bigot and everything the do with trends that have persisted over time. Sometimes observed fact isn’t fair.

    • John Roscoe

      and if he knows any words in English, you can guarantee they are all second and first tier expletive insults and he will spam them over and over.

      so basically my point is the biggest example of why DOTA 2 community is asinine is not because people “think it’s acceptable” to bash “other races,” but it’s because the God’s honest truth really REALLY is people from outside the US think it’s fucking hilarious to ruin our matches. You have to understand that the real world does not conform to our concepts of equity. Sometimes, especially in gaming, entire swaths of people really can display a very negative attribute.

  • SlayingRager

    most LoL and DotA players need to be shot IRL

  • michael andrews

    Why is it anything to do with world of warcraft attracts retards and fuckwits, usually with massive undeserved egos

  • aaronmhill

    I’m a noob, comparatively speaking — I’ve got just under 600 hours logged in, but still a lot to learn.

    I find it very frustrating when I have non-English speaking people *on my team* because communication is very important in this game and the language barrier makes it hard to play cohesively. If the other team is able to communicate better, they will probably fare better because Valve tries to match similar skill levels to balance the teams.

    I have nothing against people of other nations or who speak other languages. I’ve seen some very talented players who were probably Peruvian or Mexican or Argentinian, etc. I’ve lost to them many times over, as well. If the opposing team is being toxic in all-chat, regardless of what language they speak, I just mute and keep playing.

    But it’s not cool when I can’t communicate with my team, and I am almost generally very polite and friendly – I *want* to team, and the only time I get harsh on teammates is when they’re tilting the team by being negative, in which case I say “dude, don’t tilt your team.” and eventually “muting ___.” I’d rather not be able to communicate at all than risk tilting from toxic teammates.

    But still — I don’t think it’s too much to ask to have language made more of a priority in matching. I really don’t care if people from other countries want to play on my server (US East, incidentally), but perhaps some kind of indicator about whether or not I’ll be able to communicate with them?

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