The Xbox One and PlayStation 4 are here to revitalise the games industry and make games publishing a profitable business again, right? Not so fast. Avalanche, the guys behind just Cause 2 and the very cool, as yet unreleased Mad Max think the industry is in serious trouble.
"It’s really not healthy at the moment," Avalanche boss Christofer Sundberg told Gamespot when asked about the state of gaming. "Games have evolved, technology has evolved but as businesses we’re still stuck where we were 15 years ago. As budgets grow, risks increase."
"The publishers are nervous because they have to project a game being a massive hit three years into the future and the developers are frustrated because they need to be flexible to every move the publishers make," Sundberg added. "It’s impossible to make everyone happy in the current equation."
The unfortunate reality of it is that it’s becoming increasingly difficult for big games, with their big budgets to actually make money. Not all games are GTA V or Call of Duty.
"Very few traditional $60 games make any money, and what used to make sense doesn’t any more," he said. "Publishers and developers very rarely see a return of investment from a 5-8 hour long game."
It’s one of the reasons, at least, that we’re seeing more games saddled with microtansactions, and why we’re seeing more and more larger developers start up their own indie studios where they’re afforded the opportunity to take a few more risks and be more creative in a risk-averse industry.
Last Updated: February 5, 2014
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 13:05
“very few $60 games make any money”
Janee, doing it wrong methinks
General JJ PanGirl
February 5, 2014 at 13:06
I’ve bought so many indie games lately and they’ve been worth more their price tag than most of the AAA titles I’ve bought.
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 13:07
You said it.
FTL, over 200 hours, now recently discovered the mods, time for MOAR hours!
General JJ PanGirl
February 5, 2014 at 13:10
I’ve got 13 hours only, but that’s about to change with those mods!
Rags
February 5, 2014 at 13:39
Oooh did not know it had mods?!
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 13:41
http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=11
Currently rolling with Star Trek mod, sooooo gooooood!!!!!
Kromas
February 5, 2014 at 13:58
BEAM ME UP MODDY!!
Rags
February 5, 2014 at 13:59
http://imageshack.com/a/img812/1695/tahe.jpg
SR2 baby!
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 14:01
Hehe, have a look at the ST mod, 40mb, but daaaaaaamn, soooo much detail! New weapons, sounds, augmentations!!!!
Rags
February 5, 2014 at 14:04
Have a link?
This: http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11844 ?
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 14:06
http://www.ftlgame.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11844
You need slipstream mod manager as well (look for link on that page)
Rags
February 5, 2014 at 14:06
Thanks!
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 14:48
😉
Hammersteyn
February 5, 2014 at 13:08
I wish the companies that launches their own indie studios will finally get more retro remakes going. Last year Capcom release Ducktales and Darksiders and I bet those two scored way higher than with the critics than Resident Evil 6.
The best part is it probably cost 100th of Res6 budget to make and release
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 13:11
I think the issue at hand is not the fact “very few $60 games make any money” but instead the quality of games that gamers expect. You simply can’t expect a sub par game get the sales if there are bigger and better titles on the horizon.The catch is why games like Tomb Raider sold so poorly and yet were epic games, which does make one think that there is a big issue in the industry, just not exactly sure where..
General JJ PanGirl
February 5, 2014 at 13:13
There are so many options out there these days too. So people can only afford to buy about a tenth of what they want. Steam sales have luckily made it nice for me, but for console guys it’s a different story and that’s where most of the money is.
Alex Hicks
February 5, 2014 at 13:15
I was going to go with “very few $60 games are worth $60”. The fact that Tomb Raider did poorly was probably more to do with the number of times gamers have been burned by titles shipped with bugs and day 1 DLC.
Now we wait for steam sale and bargain bin stuff.
General JJ PanGirl
February 5, 2014 at 13:17
We know why EA’s AAA titles are suffering. Because it’s EA. They’ve lost too many customers, and I’m one of them.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 13:45
And me. As much as I’d like to play DA3, I’m not going to because I don’t like their business practices.
General JJ the ashamed
February 5, 2014 at 13:56
Same here. My Origin has become the deserted wasteland of New Vegas.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 14:01
My Origin consists of ME3, because I had to install it for that, then it found out I have DA2, and their Humble Bundle for charity. woohoo.
Weanerdog
February 5, 2014 at 14:08
Origin is one of the toughest uninstalls, that shit doesn’t want to die.
General JJ the ashamed
February 5, 2014 at 14:28
Too ashamed to say what’s on mine.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 14:32
No need to be ashamed of Barbie Horse Adventures.
General JJ the ashamed
February 5, 2014 at 14:40
Haha. Sadly, it’s worse. SimCity and Darkspore. (hope no one else reads this)
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 13:16
This is what I want to know, how can they say 3.5 million sales are considered a failure? To me that is not.
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 13:21
I know right, I mean if a game is $60 and they sold 3,5 million they made 210million!
Weanerdog
February 5, 2014 at 13:41
Except the developers don’t sell it for $60 that would be the retailers, then there are also distribution guys and there are probably some costs that go on during that 3.5 year development cycle. Remember that the money gets generated at the end of the period so that is quite a long time to carry those costs before they get a return so they probably need to finance those costs. The investors also need their cut for the money they put in or they would just stick their money into other investments and now whats left?
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 13:49
So how much would the devs sell the games to the next person to then?
Weanerdog
February 5, 2014 at 13:54
No idea but retailers generally have at least 50% markups before VAT/sales tax. Distributors I guess would be going in at 15%-25% but that is on top of the transport/shipping/customs costs. No clue how online distribution works.
Aussious
February 5, 2014 at 20:03
See my problem is Simple why do games still cost $60 if you buying them from xb market or PSN middle man is out nt to mention distribution cost are out you buying straight from the license providers.
Weanerdog
February 6, 2014 at 09:30
Which is why I say no idea how online distribution works. but yes I would assume that the developer gets more into their pockets that way. It would be interesting to see what percentage of game sales are online. I am assuming that the retailers make a similar markup otherwise they would just cut their prices and have everyone buy from them.
Umar Hyakutaro [S]
February 5, 2014 at 13:29
Companies put all their turds in one pot. When the the turd turns out to be an actual turd, all the money they spent on that turd, get’s flushed down the pot.
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 13:16
I want to see what Cliffy B has to say about this 🙂 I think too many games are set up as $60 and it’s painfully obvious that that is NOT the worth of what went in. Example… ALIENS: COLONIAL FUCKUPS.
Hammersteyn
February 5, 2014 at 13:18
Ride to hell retribution…..
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 13:22
How that game even got published is a question I would love someone to answer
General JJ the ashamed
February 5, 2014 at 13:21
That’s true. Some terrible games were charged way too much for. I’d rather have spent more money on something like FTL than I wasted on something like GRID2. It’s disheartening that it’s become so okay to release incomplete or buggy games.
Weanerdog
February 5, 2014 at 13:49
I think that part of the problem is that the cost of producing games are too high, so they reduce production time and quality control. What they land up with is then a crap game/buggy as hell title. Also as cost are sunk they will release any piece of shit to recoup what they can even if they know they have a lemon.
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 13:50
That makes rather shitty lemonade
Weanerdog
February 5, 2014 at 14:06
XD, that it does
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 13:53
Can he hear you over the sound of his Lambo revving?
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 13:58
I am sure he can. I however, cannot hear you over the fucking ANCYL screaming ‘Zille is a gangster’ outside my office…
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 14:06
Agang-ster? Too soon?
Weanerdog
February 5, 2014 at 14:07
that’s funny shit right there.
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 14:10
9000+ HAHAHAHAH!
HvR
February 5, 2014 at 15:15
Ask them to at least mix it in with some Antwoord lyrics:
DAAI BRA ZILLE SY’S N FOKKEN GAM BRA
HAAI! DAAI ZILLE SY LAM INNIE MANG JA
‘KEN SY MY NOMMER?’
TWEE SES? TWEE SEWE? OF IS JY N AG BRA?
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 15:30
Haha! I’d get crucified on twitter for being a racist if I did! Call the ANCYL turds and they immediately say you are a racist etc.
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 15:58
You are racist!!! *In Julius voice*
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 16:00
And you are a bluudy Agent!
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 16:01
for the BBC – Brighter Better Colours!
HvR
February 5, 2014 at 18:07
You should give them free bottle of water laced with extacy.
Rent a couple of big boom speakers and let the beat drop.
The rest will occur naturally.
Umar Hyakutaro [S]
February 5, 2014 at 13:19
Gamers themselves are no longer satisfied with games that are not baysplotion spectacles.Back in the day a game like Journey could easily be called a AAA game. Focus rather on the quality of the game than everything else.These huge budgets are killing these companies. There the Remember Me company is going under 🙁 Gaming needs to go back to simpler times … Why is it that 2 million copies sold of Dark Souls is a success but 6 million of RE 6 isn’t…..I just can’t understand this
TiMsTeR1033
February 5, 2014 at 13:24
Maybe the costs of the game to make… They gotta pay everyone their dues and they made a shitty game so now in shit.
General JJ the ashamed
February 5, 2014 at 13:28
Don’t forget lining their pockets.
Tarisma
February 5, 2014 at 13:39
My question is what makes a AAA game. Is it splosions with huge dudes wielding massive assault rifles yelling “MERICA” while rescuing their unrealistically hot female teammate and simultaneously killing ethnic majorities by the bazillion? the short answer is yes. Fuck storylines who needs those.
Umar Hyakutaro [S]
February 5, 2014 at 13:48
Exactly!…..Who needs them right….sigh. Back in the day puzzle games were retail games. Such a simple life back then…..
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 15:44
I think you just described Bulletstorm heh.
Tarisma
February 5, 2014 at 15:56
ironically bulletstorm was my favorite game of the last generation (the game I had the most fun with).
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 16:14
I thought it was good fun too.
Aussious
February 5, 2014 at 20:08
Its all just corporate bullshit…
fred
February 5, 2014 at 13:24
I myself do not have the time and budget to support games that score less than 80 metacritic. Gamers hold out for the big releases they know will give them hours of entertainment , and all the others fall into oblivion and non-profitability. It is a tough industry with spoilt customers with ultra high expectations.
Ryanza
February 5, 2014 at 13:33
The gaming industry. How to get the people of the world, buying and playing games. You take the largest platform (PC) which whole lot of people in the world have and then make internet (which not a lot of people have) the requirement for playing games. Because the 1% is always greater than the 99%. I don’t get the logic but that’s the world we live in.
Origin, Uplay, Steam, DRM, Xbox Live, PSN+, internet, digital downloads, micro-transactions, ect…
This is not the publishers trying to sell games to the world (selling games to the most people as possible), this is gaming segregation. And then I wonder why they complain about not making money.
So fuck them. Don’t buy into their shit, Don’t buy their shit, Only support DRM-free games like the Witcher 3.
Tarisma
February 5, 2014 at 13:36
My logic is why buy a new game for R700 when in 6 months it will be R400 and in a year it will be R150 on a steam sale or free on PS+. Sure there are examples such as GTAV, BF4 and GW2 where i have played enough to justify a R700 purchase, but they are few and far between.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 13:41
I agree, it’s not healthy & there’s a hell of a lot of problems converging into one big storm that’s already starting to hit gaming hard. My feeling is the main problem is costs have ballooned to crazy levels to make & market AAA games & that they’d really benefit by scaling back on quite how much they’re trying to throw into & around games. They’ve just become too complicated to sustain with the exception of large franchises.
Next time you finish an EA, Ubi, etc game have a look at the credits. After a few minutes you’ll get bored, so go boil the kettle & make a cup of coffee, it’s okay – they’ll still be rolling when you get back. Because there’s just an endless list of directors, presidents, executives, managers, department heads, etc & all the vice-, junior- etc variants thereof. All those salaries have to be paid, and they’re not cheap.
I sympathise with the devs, & even the pubs to an extent, when it comes to this. They’re businesses making an entertainment product & need a profit to keep afloat. When great games, like Tomb Raider for example, with a few million units in sales are basically seen as commercial failures there’s a serious problem.
However as a customer I’ve become disillusioned with the way they’re going about trying to shore up profits. A million & one DLCs, broken games, forced online, etc don’t encourage me to buy nearly as many games, or at full price, as I once did. I’m guessing I’m not the only one doing that, which creates a nice, vicious cycle. Gaming is my preferred hobby, but it’s not my only one. I don’t have these kinds of problems with a book.
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 13:46
meh TL;DR
Kromas
February 5, 2014 at 13:50
In a nutshell: Fire all the useless guys on projects aka Trimming the fat.
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 13:50
Awesome, tx
Kromas
February 5, 2014 at 13:56
Also let South Africans participate in non-payed Beta tests.Thank you Bethesda for screwing my weekend cause now I have to get as much ESO in to form a proper opinion.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 13:52
😛 I worked for minutes on that!
Admiral Chief in Vegas
February 5, 2014 at 13:55
Meh, how about you get you lazy ass over to some 4v4 L4D2?
Hammersteyn
February 5, 2014 at 13:57
Mars minutes?
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 13:59
Yes, I should have charged more for shipping.
RinceThis2014
February 5, 2014 at 14:00
LOOL
SheHulkNigri
February 5, 2014 at 16:12
Or a a few good movies or TV series. I am at a point where I simply cannot justify handing over R700.00 for a game that may entertain me 8 hours (if I am lucky) whereas I am going to be equally entertained by a good series like Bones and Criminal Minds…
HvR
February 5, 2014 at 18:22
I agree 100%.
It is probably easier and cheaper (less man hours) to develop games now than in the 90’s.
Everything is more dev friendly with proper standards and lots of tools to assist.
So it can only be “management overhead”; I’ve seen this in quite a few companies with there being 1.5 managers for every person developing/creating and selling.
Rags
February 5, 2014 at 13:52
For me 2 or 3 AAA games a year is enough. Combined with humble bundles and Steam sales and your favoutire goto multiplayer game, there is simply no reason to buy a lesser AAA game for the same price. You have reached your peak of being satisfied.
Games like Bioshock and Dishonoured, while great games I am never going to fork out that much of cash because I am already satisfied with say Skyrim and Mass Effect 3 and my go to relaxing games; Tony Hawk 2 and Quake Live. I can’t get myself to buy these games because I expect they won’t fulfill me the way the games I am playing are.
I think many of the ‘lesser’ AAA games are suffering from this running on a hedonic treadmill by gamers.
Kromas
February 5, 2014 at 13:57
Stop wasting money on developing DRM and simply use steam. Also drop console gaming completely. 😛
Daniel Keevy
February 5, 2014 at 13:58
It also doesn’t help that most of the companies treat their customers like criminals. Or have them spend up to twice the value of a game, for on disc content.
El Capitan del Blade
February 5, 2014 at 14:23
The Problem is, People want a return on their investment, I don’t mind dropping full retail for a PC release…. IF I get my money’s worth, a 5-8 hour single player campaign, *(I deplore online multiplayer) is not worth the money…. If publishers quit forcing devs to make short, cashgrabby games, we’d all be better off….
oVg 60fps > 30fps
February 5, 2014 at 15:01
Yet a game like Dark Souls sells itself and makes a huge profit from just 750k in sales.
Stop cloning COD FPS games and give us challenge.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 15:10
Because they didn’t have to pay the salary for the executive senior vice president of consumer research’s assistant’s dog walker.
oVg 60fps > 30fps
February 5, 2014 at 16:14
lol
Brady miaau
February 5, 2014 at 16:27
Hey, I aspire to that position!
Rock789
February 5, 2014 at 16:04
True dat. As Trev has said – the smaller the company (a.k.a. the less mouths to feed), the more quickly the games they release can become profitable.
Also, look at CD Projekt Red. I think they were well under 100 people when making The Witcher 2 (even less when making the original Witcher). Thus, it took them a little longer but they still only released it when they were happy with it. And the result was a game universally praised by gamers and critics alike. Hell, even no DRM didn’t stop them from making a nice, tidy profit off the PC release alone. They are proof – you can make it work if you do it right.
Alien Emperor Trevor
February 5, 2014 at 16:16
I watched a video of their’s a while back. The vast majority of the pirated versions of the game online came from retail release disks, not the non-drm gog versions. Interesting.
Aussious
February 5, 2014 at 19:44
This EA/Activision model needs to go…
64bit
February 6, 2014 at 08:39
“5-8 hour game” whoops seems they answered there own question
Greed and gluttony will be there down fall, and its fine there so many indie devs making amazing games for the love of it and not for profit.