Home Gaming Dutch company accuses No Man’s Sky of stealing their “superformula”

Dutch company accuses No Man’s Sky of stealing their “superformula”

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Is No Man's Sky's formula stolen 2

No Man’s Sky is a technical and mathematical marvel. You only have to look at the game’s absurdly small size of 6GB and its promises of a near infinite number of planets to explore to grasp just how much is being generated on the fly, and appreciate how difficult that must have been to program. Hello Games have been riding off this fascination since debut, but a Dutch company is claiming they might have stolen it.

Tilburg-based company Genicap (as reported by the German Telegraph and translated by NeoGAF) is claiming that Hello Games is making use of a formula for their procedural generation that actually doesn’t belong to them. Genicap states that their “superformula” is still under patent with the company, and that Hello Games has no license to use it without their approval. Approval which they have never given.

Despite reaching out multiple times to the developer, Genicap claims that Hello Games never made any attempt to clarify the situation or absolve themselves of blame. Genicap’s Jeroen Sparrow says they need to talk.

“We haven’t provided a license to Hello Games. We certainly don’t want to stop the launch, but if the formula is used we’ll need to have a talk.”

The term “superformula” is a particularly interesting one, if only for the fact that Sean Murray has personally referred to the algorithm behind No Man’s Sky by that exact name in the past. Speaking to The New Yorker last year, Murray admitted that an equation, published in 2003 by Belgian plant geneticist Johan Gielis, was the basis behind the magic in the game. Gielies, coincidentally, is the Chief Research Officer at Genicap, and has owned the patent to the formula since 2000.

Hello Games has yet to publically comment on the claims. No Man’s Sky is out on August 9th for PS4 and PC.

 

Last Updated: July 21, 2016

79 Comments

  1. These poor guys just can’t catch a break!

    Reply

    • Crippled by UK State goons

      August 7, 2016 at 11:00

      “Poor guys”? pfffft… They are mean as junkyard dogs.
      They got me permanently banned from the NMS forum for pointing this article out.
      I have bought over $10,000 worth of Steam games, and yet they still treat their best customers like trash.

      Reply

  2. Dutch Matrix

    July 21, 2016 at 08:35

    These poor guys cannot catch a break! Or well, after READING the article, maybe they did it to themselves this time?

    Reply

    • Hammersteyn_hates_Raid0

      July 21, 2016 at 08:36

      Out of the fire into the Dutch Oven?

      Reply

      • Ottokie

        July 21, 2016 at 08:47

        xD

        Reply

      • Dutch Matrix

        July 21, 2016 at 08:53

        Don’t mock the Dutch Oven! It was a well respected restaurant my Sims frequented! (Still need to redo it, to be honest)

        Reply

        • Hammersteyn_hates_Raid0

          July 21, 2016 at 08:54

          XD

          Reply

  3. Raptor Rants

    July 21, 2016 at 08:39

    This is not good. At least the company said they don’t want to delay the launch. Maybe they’ll end up taking a cut of profits? Still that would be terrible if it’s true. Very disappointing

    Reply

    • Dutch Matrix

      July 21, 2016 at 08:43

      But see now: Research had to be done! Had they done that and not just taken something from someone without asking it would have not been. Oh who gives a hoot?

      Reply

      • Captain JJ off track

        July 21, 2016 at 08:58

        You just say that because your name is Dutch and they took from a Dutch company 😛

        Reply

        • Dutch Matrix

          July 21, 2016 at 09:50

          My company was wiped out… 🙁

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief - Check

            July 21, 2016 at 09:52

            HAHAHA

  4. Captain JJ off track

    July 21, 2016 at 08:40

    If they did utelise the formula then they need to come to some arrangement with the guys who wrote it, it’s only fair. Still very much looking forward to this game, none the less.

    Reply

  5. Pariah

    July 21, 2016 at 08:42

    Question on my mind: Did they use the formula as-is, or just use it as a base and adapt to their own needs? Because the latter leaves plenty grounds for “not patented”, but the former is just theft. Very different outcomes, depending on which is the case.

    Reply

    • Frik van der Hewerskink

      July 21, 2016 at 09:50

      Most patents on these type of things don’t allow any modification of the “formula as-is” as you say. If they did make any adaptations, it would be a big no no as well.

      Reply

      • Pariah

        July 21, 2016 at 09:52

        Actually, in most cases, a change of just 10% is sufficient a change to not fall under the patent. This is how a lot of chinese knock-offs go about their business, and how business have made cheaper alternative products for decades. It’s just how the copyright laws work.

        Reply

        • Frik van der Hewerskink

          July 21, 2016 at 19:14

          I am sorry but how do you even measure a 10% change on something like this ?

          Reply

  6. Ottokie

    July 21, 2016 at 08:50

    This aint no regular formula…this is a SUPERFORMULA!

    Reply

  7. AfricanTime

    July 21, 2016 at 08:51

    can you patent an equation ?? it is news to me…

    Reply

    • Pariah

      July 21, 2016 at 08:52

      You can, yeah.

      Reply

      • Hammersteyn_hates_Raid0

        July 21, 2016 at 08:53

        Einstein lost a fortune then

        Reply

        • Raptor Rants

          July 21, 2016 at 08:54

          Einstein knew that copyrighting something like mathematical equations was the way to doom progress. He was a good guy for not being an ass

          Reply

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 08:55

            I don’t actually think copyright existed as a concept back then, actually. I need to look into this.

          • Raptor Rants

            July 21, 2016 at 08:56

            Good point

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:04

            He worked in a patent office if I recall. 🙂

          • Raptor Rants

            July 21, 2016 at 09:05

            that would be funny

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:05

            That would be hilarious XD

          • Raptor Rants

            July 21, 2016 at 13:07

            Yo. Discord. Let’s chat

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:05

            I was actually serious.

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:09

            So you were. LOL.

          • Raptor Rants

            July 21, 2016 at 13:07

            Looooooooooooooooool

          • Captain JJ off track

            July 21, 2016 at 08:59

            Yea, it does feel like patenting an equation is douchey.
            Knowledge belongs to the world, or should.

          • Raptor Rants

            July 21, 2016 at 09:01

            That’s how I feel too. Preventing the use of mathematical equations and such just prevent progress and it’s sad.

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:09

            Actually equations are the primary type of patent out there with a close second tech architecture. Half of Nvidia Gameworks patents are equations for instance. Risc and Cisc used to also be patents of equitions.

          • Captain JJ off track

            July 21, 2016 at 09:11

            I still feel, like Raptor says, that it works against progression.

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:15

            All patents do that not just a specific set. Electricity and the lightbulb and electric cars hell even space rockets are patented. Then again if you work hard for years and some douche takes your work for himself and makes all the money you would be pissed. That is exactly why patents exist.

          • Greylingad[He Charges!]

            July 21, 2016 at 09:19

            This actually happened to a guy I know, was busy doing his thesis while working for a company, by the time he wanted to hand it all in, the University dismissed it, his direct manager and friend, filed it…

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:20

            This actually happened to a Dutch company I know. Another company called Hello Games stole their formula to make their game. 🙂

          • Greylingad[He Charges!]

            July 21, 2016 at 09:20

            HAHAHA! No man, I’m sirius…

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:55

            UCT?

            I’ve heard some professors do that there.

          • Greylingad[He Charges!]

            July 21, 2016 at 09:59

            Nope, luckily not one of the proffies, but literally a guy he knew for about 10 years at the time…

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 10:00

            This is why I don’t have many friends. People do this too often. Cunts.

          • Captain JJ off track

            July 21, 2016 at 09:20

            I understand that. And I can appreciate it. But I still say the same thing. I’m not saying that they’re not allowed to charge for it if it’s their creation, I’m talking about the companies that patent things and then don’t allow anyone else to use it. That’s douchey. Set up a license agreement and charge royalties if you’ve created something like this. There’s no problem with that.
            What this Dutch company could’ve done though is at least presented a royalty fee.

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:23

            If they knew about the formula being stolen then yes but they only found out after the fact. Hello Games never came to them and said “Hey guys can we use this?”. Hello Games here is the real scumbag. They even acknowledged that they stole it. I mean come on.

          • Captain JJ off track

            July 21, 2016 at 09:27

            Yea, no. There’s no denying that. They could’ve and should’ve done that.

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:54

            Well they didn’t acknowledge stealing it, but they did admit to using it as a base. Which as I have said can turn out to be straight up theft if they didn’t adapt the formula much or at all – but also allows for them to have adapted it enough for it to no longer fall under copyright.

            However, looking at everything posted so far, it seems Hello Games is in trouble here, and will likely need to do some serious damage control.

        • Pariah

          July 21, 2016 at 08:54

          Well no, nobody is claiming it as their own. It’s always attributed to him. And really, he only became so famous after he’d died. Like most of the geniuses we know and love today.

          Reply

          • Hammersteyn_hates_Raid0

            July 21, 2016 at 08:56

            Neither are these guys, they’re making use of a formula for their procedural generation that apparently doesn’t belong to them

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 08:58

            Well, they MAY be using the formula as is, or they MAY have adapted it. But without more info we can’t say. As I said, if they’ve just used the formula without attribution or compensation, then that’s just not on. If they’ve adapted it, depending on how much, they could very well have a case for fair use.

      • AfricanTime

        July 21, 2016 at 08:58

        which equation/formula has been patented?

        Reply

        • Pariah

          July 21, 2016 at 08:59

          You’ve literally just read an article answering that.

          Reply

          • AfricanTime

            July 21, 2016 at 09:20

          • Greylingad[He Charges!]

            July 21, 2016 at 09:22

            You know the funny thing about this whole debacle is that if Hello Games approached them with a royalty offer and were willing to negotiate, we would not be commenting about it here…

          • Kromas GG

            July 21, 2016 at 09:23

            Yep. They are not presenting themselves in a good light here.

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:28

            Nicely done! 😀

          • Captain JJ off track

            July 21, 2016 at 09:28

            I read some of it. :/

    • Dutch Matrix

      July 21, 2016 at 08:53

      Intellectual copy right and all that…

      Reply

  8. konfab

    July 21, 2016 at 09:00

    Hello Games were right to ignore them.
    Patenting an equation is B.S.

    The most you can do is patent the equation’s use in a specific product. So if the claimant had made some software that simulated trees for example and No man’s sky did the same thing it would be an infringement.

    Besides which, the formula itself is a generalisation of existing work.

    Reply

    • Pariah

      July 21, 2016 at 09:02

      The problem is that the formula IS patented. Which, if used directly, gives the company grounds to claim their patent. Regardless of how logical or sensible it may or may not be.

      Reply

    • Raptor Rants

      July 21, 2016 at 09:04

      Unfortunately the patent exists. If the patent exists then the company has every right in preventing it from being used anywhere. Regardless of application of said patent.

      This is not like a generic word like scrolls where it’s only valid within video games. Mathematical equations see application in many areas and so they can enforce the patent in any form of work really.

      Reply

      • konfab

        July 21, 2016 at 09:21

        You can patent the application of the formula to a very specific context. But you cannot patent the formula itself.

        Hypothetical example:
        For example, if I discover that some existing formula can be used to build software that can predict the stock market, I would be entitled to patent its use in this context.

        If someone took that process and applied it to predicting a lottery, the patent I filed wouldn’t cover the application.

        The interesting part is this:
        http://patents.justia.com/inventor/johan-gielis

        Method and apparatus for creating timewise display of widely variable naturalistic scenery on an amusement device”
        Which would cover the application in No Man’s Sky.

        The only problem is that it was filed on the July 6, 2014 and granted on April 19, 2016.

        It’s date of filing was after the announcement of No Man’s sky. I can find a video of it dated 9th of December 2013. Which means that Hello Games figured out how to use the formula in a game before this company even knew of its use in computer games.

        This is going to get shot down quicker than someone doing too much mining in front of a sentry bot.

        Reply

        • Kromas GG

          July 21, 2016 at 09:25

          The formula has been patented since 2000. Hello games will lose.

          Reply

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:27

            Yup.

            Filing date May 10, 2000
            Priority date May 10, 1999

          • konfab

            July 21, 2016 at 09:33

            Read what I said, the formula itself cannot be patented.

            You can only patent the specific application. And that was done after NMS was announced.

          • Pariah

            July 21, 2016 at 09:35

            Except that all evidence points to the formula being patented. The formula. Again I will paste it here: “SUPERFORMULA™”. TM. Trademark. Patented. Cannot be used by others without permission and/or payment. Done and done.

          • konfab

            July 21, 2016 at 09:41

            How many patents regarding algorithms and software have you filed? I have personally been through the process regarding work I did in my masters.
            If someone took my work and used it in a different field that was not related to the patent I filed it under, it is tough on me because I didn’t think of using it in that way.

            Algorithms and formula by themselves cannot be patented. They have to have a application to a specific process. If this were not the case, every single mathematician would be able to patent their work as is.

            A trademark is not a patent. There would be an issue if Hello Games said on their software:
            Powered By Superformula™
            As far as I know, Hello Games isn’t doing so.

          • Greylingad[He Charges!]

            July 21, 2016 at 09:52

            To further elaborate on this, there is a company that makes use of a specific way of calculating the density of a fluid, they have a specific patent relating to the way of determining the value by means of a reference cell, this allows them to calculate the density of a fluid even if the instrument is subject to vibration, this part is patented, they cannot patent all encompassing formulae relating to density measurement, merely their own application, the patent itself includes the algorithms used in their equipment.

          • konfab

            July 21, 2016 at 10:03

            Further:

            Abstract ideas are concepts like pure mathematics and algorithms. You cannot patent a formula. However, you can patent an application of that formula. Thus, while you cannot patent a mathematical formula that produces nonrepeating patterns, you can patent paper products that use that formula to prevent rolls of paper from sticking together. –

            http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-cant-be-patented.html#sthash.KKX488nL.dpuf

          • Admiral Chief - Check

            July 21, 2016 at 10:08

            Interesting points

        • Pariah

          July 21, 2016 at 09:29

          Also, in your same link, a far more apt, and possibly the exact one referred to, patent:

          Computer graphics systems and methods
          Publication number: 20050140678
          Abstract: In some preferred embodiments, a new kind of graphical editor is provided. Preferably, the graphical editor utilizes the SUPERFORMULA™ formula. In some preferred embodiments, a graphical editor can be used to, e.g., create 2-D images, 3-D images and/or animations.
          Type: Application
          Filed: June 18, 2004
          Publication date: June 30, 2005
          Inventors: Johan Gielis, Edwin Bastiaena, Bert Belrinckx

          Reply

    • HairyEwok

      July 25, 2016 at 12:58

      Einstein should have patented his formula… Just think of all the money he would’ve made. But no he wasn’t thinking about money, he was thinking about forwarding the human race, to better our way of life.

      Reply

  9. Greylingad[He Charges!]

    July 21, 2016 at 09:02

    Nice of them to not halt the launch, I mean, if it is really their IP, they could’ve easily stopped them dead in their tracks…

    Reply

    • konfab

      July 21, 2016 at 10:12

      The patent that could stop this was awarded in April.

      They waited until a month before release to push it so that Sony and Hello games would be more likely to settle.

      Reply

  10. Gavin Mannion

    July 21, 2016 at 09:11

    I have not been following the game, but it does look like NMS is in trouble here.. and by not agreeing to a royalty payment they’ve opened themselves up for a court to decide what % is should be… risky businesss

    Reply

    • Pariah

      July 21, 2016 at 09:31

      It really does look like they’ve done fucked up

      Reply

  11. Simon

    July 21, 2016 at 11:41

    Very well laid out argument here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/4tsx9d/chill_out_folks_math_is_not_patentable/

    It’s like if you used a bit of calculus in your program and the estate of Sir Isaac Newton came knocking for money (overly simplified I know but similar concept)

    Reply

  12. SA_intZA

    July 21, 2016 at 13:05

    How would Genicap even know what formula was used in the source code without access to it?

    Reply

  13. Crippled by UK State goons

    August 7, 2016 at 10:55

    Cant trust anything Sean nor the No Mans Sky team say anymore (whether about a release date for PC, or this copyright infringement).

    Even the Steam No Mans Sky Forum Mod will ban you for pointing out the evidence this article mentions.
    I got a lifetime ban from Steam NMS forum after mentioning this and providing the link (and asking for a further delay for NMS to perfect the game).
    Then they cut out all of my posts/comments when a number of other people agreed with my pointing out the issues).
    Other peoples threads and posts are being deleted; and other people are getting perma-bans from the hysterical Mods on Steam NMS forum.

    Then they tried to ban me for my Steam Avatar picture which merely says “Its GREAT to be STRAIGHT”. For now I am banned by them for saying “Its GREAT to be STRAIGHT” in a pic.
    Then they tried to ban my Steam Name (which was “Work makes you Free” [in German]). But I managed to get that ban lifted after I pointed out Google Translate.,
    The No Mans sky mob are a bit of an offensive bunch, and they should be stopped.

    They certainly made sure I will never buy their cartoon space toytown game.
    Buy Star Citizen or something like.
    Dont settle for pernicious misrepresentations.

    Reply

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