Home Gaming Mad Max dev: Games traded when too short or boring

Mad Max dev: Games traded when too short or boring

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Christofer Sundberg, founder of Avalance Studios who brought you Just Cause and are bringing Mad Max, thinks that when games are too short or lack replay value, they are most often traded in.  He points out that if you can experience everything a game has to offer in 8-10 hours, there is little reason to keep it.  And he’s not the only one who sees it this way.

He spoke on the topic when talking about the high emotions at E3.  People are worried about the second-hand game market and DRM, which he attributes to developers not making games that are worth replaying.  In his words:

“I’m sure it’s been an issue but that’s because games have been too short, I mean when you can play a game through from 8 to 10 hours, I would return the game too, because there’s no reason for players to play it again  If you’re offering little variation, then there’s no motivation for the player to keep that game – unless they want to have a nice bookshelf. That’s why we answered that with Just Cause. I go into game stores each week and I always go to the used game boxes – I usually don’t find that many [copies of Just Cause].”

Nintendo shares this philosophy.  Reggie Fils-Aime, president of Nintendo of America, simply said that if console makers are worried about used games, they should ensure their games are so good that no one wants to trade them in.  He claims that Nintendo has a very low second-hand market because people keep wanting to play their games.

So we see that the trade-in frequency on Nintendo content is much less than the industry average – much, much less. So for us, we have been able to step back and say that we are not taking any technological means to impact trade-in and we are confident that if we build great content, then the consumer will not want to trade in our games.

I think there’s something to this theory.  Some games have amazing replay value.  Others, not so much.  Why do you trade in games (if you do)?  Would the DRM issue be less important to you if you could rely on getting higher quality games?

Last Updated: June 18, 2013

52 Comments

  1. Admiral Chief Groot Wors

    June 18, 2013 at 13:05

    I’ve noticed on the RAPTR app and from Steam achievements (progress and percentage) that quite a few people play the game for only a few minutes or maybe an hour and then abandon it. I’ve only abandoned 2 games ever. Red Faction 2 (IT’S A TRAP!!!!) and over the weekend a f2p game called Cry of Fear (also terrible).

    Reply

    • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

      June 18, 2013 at 13:07

      ….cry of fear is awesome 🙁

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

        June 18, 2013 at 13:07

        You liked it? Man, after trying (unsuccessfully) to get the co-op to work, I started with some SP, and 5min in thought “what a load of donkey doodoo” and promptly deleted it

        Reply

        • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

          June 18, 2013 at 13:09

          I did actually, I watched a PewDiePie LP of it, and thought it looked cool, it turned out to be pretty horrible, but in a good way, if that makes sense

          Reply

  2. Umar Kiiroi Senk?

    June 18, 2013 at 13:06

    No game lasts forever……I will eventually get bored of it and at that point I would trade it in. Every single game can’t be an MMO and only a few number of devs have actually managed to implement DLC well

    Reply

    • LordCaptainAwesomeness

      June 18, 2013 at 13:10

      I feel you on that. However, a lot of games lack proper stories, and immersion…

      I can remember clocking over 100+ hours in FF8 and FF10 each, and sadly there are not many games that really get you that interested and immersed that you cannot put it down..

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

        June 18, 2013 at 13:10

        I’m currently 60hrs into XCOM (third playthrough) and I am just enjoying the hell out of that!!!

        Reply

        • LordCaptainAwesomeness

          June 18, 2013 at 13:12

          Haven’t tried XCOM yet. Been lying there in my queue waiting… May just give it a bash.. Dankie Admiral

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

            June 18, 2013 at 13:12

            You MUST, what a brilliant game

        • Rinceyouropinion

          June 18, 2013 at 13:12

          damn you, this is why I can’t find a cheap copy! 😉

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

            June 18, 2013 at 13:13

            I heard a birdie say something about getting it for much less soon……but will not break the news yet

          • Rinceyouropinion

            June 18, 2013 at 13:15

            Don’t play with my feelings based on the machinations of your birds! I don’t trust them!

          • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

            June 18, 2013 at 13:16

            THE BIRDS ARE NOT A LIE!!!

          • Rinceyouropinion

            June 18, 2013 at 13:17

            *Gets back under table* “I knew it, and you all laughed at me!”

          • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

            June 18, 2013 at 13:18

            COMING FOR YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

            😛

            *readies shotgun to defend Rince’s base*

            “ALLYOURBASEARENOTBELONGTOYOUBIRDIEEEEES”

          • Rinceyouropinion

            June 18, 2013 at 13:21

            Hahahaha!

          • Andre116

            June 18, 2013 at 13:32

            Just admit that you are scared about the ass kicking I’ll give you if you ever start playing that game. No one will think any less of you.

          • Rinceyouropinion

            June 18, 2013 at 13:35

            NEVA!

        • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

          June 18, 2013 at 13:34

          Everyone is raving about XCOM, need to get this in my life

          Reply

      • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

        June 18, 2013 at 13:32

        Me 2, and I had a yearly tradition of replaying them all. Too many games lack something that can still hook you 50 hrs in. I mean, I was 60 hours into Dark Souls and I was still discovering new things. But I don’t see the point in keeping it all, I used to be a collector but I don’t think I can do that anymore, nothing against Collectors though 🙂

        Reply

        • Rinceyouropinion

          June 18, 2013 at 13:36

          I know it! Indoctrination! YOU ARE COLLECTOR! DEATH!

          Reply

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 13:48

            *Cough Cough* No I am not, I just store thing neatly in a cupboard that just has games …..

    • Rinceyouropinion

      June 18, 2013 at 13:12

      What about FF man? Or Lost Odyssey? I have to say, I won’t sell those ever. Nor would I sell ME 1,2,3. I think if a game real love instilled into it, like Shadow of the Colossus, you won’t see them in the bargain bin.

      Reply

      • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

        June 18, 2013 at 13:29

        I don’t know, I’m at a point in my life where I can’t see myself keeping things I no longer need, that said …. I still have FF 7,8,9 and LO, Blue Dragon, Tales of vesperia and Nier lol … I’m such a hypocrite when it comes to jrpgs

        Reply

        • Rinceyouropinion

          June 18, 2013 at 13:34

          Hahah! Ya, I can tell you are not attached to them 🙂

          Reply

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 13:48

            Could never give LO up, not after the struggle I went through also to import it

          • Rinceyouropinion

            June 18, 2013 at 13:54

            Did you manage to get the DLC for it? I never did 🙁

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 13:56

            Nope! I saw it was an extra boss right? I found the backyard bosses to be challenging enough

          • Rinceyouropinion

            June 18, 2013 at 13:57

            Yeah, the backyard boss was mental. Died quite a few times before owning him. This is the thing about DLC, you can get it… FOR A WHILE. Then puff, gone. I wanted that so badly too.

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 14:00

            Yup, that dude with the dog was HELL, where you have to get perfect or bad or good hits, bleh, until I saw you can kill the dog lol and really?I never checked, I saw videos online. A shame, especially for the completionists

          • M4ksim80

            June 18, 2013 at 15:36

            The Immortal fro the backyard really grated my tits…

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 15:49

            Man oh man…freaking All-Curse and Sneeze …. The pain is coming back

          • M4ksim80

            June 18, 2013 at 15:52

            ah… you remember it well!! I have 39 of the 40 achievements, still missing some items/rings/weapons for complete achievement.

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 16:06

            Indeed, hard bosses will always remain with me, The Fallen from the Last Remnant is a particularly painful one lol and wow , well done, I don’t have it in me go the extra mile

          • M4ksim80

            June 18, 2013 at 16:19

            Have you managed to get a copy of Eternal Sonata yet? I remember from our previous chat you were still looking…

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 18:00

            not yet. have yet to procure a copy…:( missing key rpgs , eternal sonata and infinite undiscovery . managed get magna carta 2 last week 🙂 any other good rpgs to recommend ?

          • M4ksim80

            June 19, 2013 at 10:46

            haha no I think you’re the jrpg expert! But I’m also looking for infinite undiscovery as well as the last remnant. Busy with Ni no Kuni… man, oh man what a ride!

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 19, 2013 at 11:14

            Would recommend the Last Remnant on PC if you have a capable PC as the Xbox version is EXTREMELY broken, the PC version was a huge joy to play. Yeah Ni No, what a fantastical story. Savor every moment!!

          • M4ksim80

            June 19, 2013 at 15:19

            Good to know about the Last Remnant, thanks!

        • LordCaptainAwesomeness

          June 18, 2013 at 13:54

          Well it is not like FF7,8,9 take up a lot of space on the PS 🙂 keep it pappie

          Reply

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 13:55

            Lol I actually have the original black discs. it’s over ten years old, those games hold a very very special place in my heart

          • LordCaptainAwesomeness

            June 18, 2013 at 13:58

            I use to have the original discs… until a very vengeful Ex-fiancée decided to hit me where it hurts, and destroyed them….

            Now it has a place on the HDD of the PS3, where in digital form it will live on

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 14:12

            OUCH!! … I felt that one man… my condolences

        • Argentil

          June 18, 2013 at 14:22

          220 hours on FFXII, you should really give that game another shot when it’s rereleased in HD (which will probably happen, Kitase said they will port FFXII if FFX sells well). Speaking of FF, I played the FFXIV: ARR beta this weekend, and was pleasantly surprised! I only got a few hours in, and will return for this weekend. I just might end up resubscribing.

          Reply

          • Umar Kiiroi Senk?

            June 18, 2013 at 14:47

            I did, in April, I dusted my ps 2 off to finish SMT:Nocturne, I tried playing it but I just couldn’t get into it, I did try hard though lol

  3. matthurstrsa

    June 18, 2013 at 13:09

    I’m very careful about what games I buy, so I don’t trade games in very often.

    Reply

  4. Rinceyouropinion

    June 18, 2013 at 13:14

    I have to agree. I have sold most of my 8-10 hour games, but kept others like Lost Odyssey, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy etc. I don’t think it is possible to make every game longer than 8 hours though. Sometimes what you are looking for is an easy to pick and an turn on game, where you just blast the shit out of everything (BLOOD DRAGON, HOOOOO!)

    Reply

  5. Todor Doutchevitch

    June 18, 2013 at 13:29

    I am a hoarder, and a game has to be really crap, for me to
    trade it in. I do however buy second hand games. If I don’t think that a game
    will be worth it (mainly get that from reviews), then I will wait until I see
    it in the bargain bin, or it’s price drops.

    Reply

  6. ElimiNathan

    June 18, 2013 at 13:38

    These big shots say something that we have all been thinking since we were teenagers and it makes the news

    Reply

  7. Warren Ross

    June 18, 2013 at 13:47

    I don’t think all games have to “go the distance.”

    Some of my best experiences were games like Grim Fandango, which had wonderful stories to tell and only lasted a few hours. On the other end of the spectrum, there are the Fallout games, the Elder Scrolls games, the Civilization games, the Mass Effect games etc. in which you could easily clock up a hundred hours or more. Beyond that are the MMOs which will consume your whole life if you’re not careful.

    Longer does not necessarily = better.

    I trade games that I know I won’t play ever again, but that doesn’t mean I don’t think they were worth the spend in the first place.

    DRM doesn’t bug me because I want to trade games in, it bugs me because it often makes playing games, as a law-abiding cash-handing-over individual, more frustrating than it needs to be. I haven’t bought any of the latest online-always DRM-based games like Diablo 3 or Simcity because I’m not keen to support that kind of thinking (and because they’re both mediocre games resting on the laurels of some once great IP).

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief Groot Wors

      June 18, 2013 at 14:15

      DAT GRIM FANDANGO….what an epic experience!

      Reply

  8. ALKi1234

    June 18, 2013 at 14:12

    This one site gave The last of us 95/100. The only negative he had was the game was to long???Really?we pay top dollar for games now days and that’s exactly what i want.still got about 3 hours to go on TLOU and can’t wait to see how it ends.

    Reply

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