Honestly I think we're all winners

The first match of our two match DOTA 2 weekend where we’ve taken the best teams from both countries has been played and the local kings of DOTA, Energy eSports, took the win with two straight matches.

I’d love to give you the full rundown but unfortunately I was at a wedding and couldn’t watch the games but I’ll ask Zoe to do a nice article on that tomorrow.

Today though we have some news. Unfortunately due to what I saw as bullying by the local DOTA 2 community on Facebook the local team lined up to play against Aztec Gaming tonight has decided to pull out.

Things got pretty heated in the original thread which now appears to be deleted but to sum it all up. I got called lots of names, I called them names, they hate me, I am ambivalent to them and life goes on.

Fun times…

Anyway more importantly after all the abuse Sector 17 were given for not being good enough to play not a single team has stepped forward to take on the second best team in Mexico. Call it fear, indifference or just plain spite I don’t know but I still think it’s disgraceful.

However Richard Sjoberg has stepped up to the plate by rounding up the old DOTA 1 national team, or most of them at least, and they will now be taking on Aztec Gaming tonight which will hopefully be streamed as well and I really hope to watch this one.

The team with the guts to stand up to the expected Facebook abuse are eZ.Dota and they are made up of

Richard ‘DeMoNiK’ Sjoberg (Dota 1 Protea)
Marc ‘saidin’ Bowers (Dota 1 protea)
Dale ‘ frenzy’ Haricombe (Immersion Bashers)
Matthew ‘pills’ Hacking (KKNP)
Rocco ‘Aion’ Vivier

To the guys giving me all the abuse on Facebook, I will happily answer all your questions and criticisms here where conversations can be threaded and will not be deleted.

eZ.Dota, we wish you the very best of luck and Sector 17 thanks for stepping forward when the haters wouldn’t. I understand why you dropped out and I’m sure we can work together in the future to make hese guys eat their words.

Last Updated: October 13, 2013

1.1
was reviewed on PC

43 Comments

  1. Matthew Holliday

    October 13, 2013 at 17:12

    I think youre being overly critical of the community.
    claiming no one had “the guts” to take them on, or being “scared” “indifferent” “spitefull” or being “haters” is a bit harsh.
    no teams stood forward because theyv just finished a heavy season of the do gaming league and are on a break, which i think is well deserved, the same as all teams do after a heavy season.
    all the teams that were put forward responded saying they were unavailable.

    your interactions with the bravado squad have obviously put them on the sideline, despite your good intentions, although i have no idea how that escalated so quickly.

    The whole sector 17 thing i think is really unfortunate though, but I guess the Mexicans having the exact same reaction is what lead to this whole situation. The circle completes itself.

    Overall, I think You, and the rest of the dota community have blown this all out of proportion, ending this promising series on a sour note.

    with the dota community getting the harsh end of the stick, because you have a website and a fanbase.

    Reply

    • Gavin Mannion

      October 13, 2013 at 18:02

      The entirething is quite complicatd with I feeling that we were being laid up to get bashed. I felt the interactions with BvD were not open and honest and that caused a lot of issues.

      The way Sector 17 were dealt with was over the top in my opinion and then as soon as they dropped out not a single person stepped forward. Then when I’d organised a new team the complaints started again about them being sub par. I mean really?

      I’ve had some incredible interactions with the people behind the scenes of the local DOTA scene but the players themselves have not painted themselves in a very good light at all.

      Yes I’m being harsh to people but it’s not like they aren’t able to give it back in spades

      Reply

      • Matthew Holliday

        October 13, 2013 at 19:30

        would you have stepped forward in that “piss pool” after the sector 17 bashing?
        bashed for volunteering, bashed for backing out. cant win against the internet.Everything in this community is competitive and personal. our biggest weakness and biggest attribute.
        Next time I would go through a middle man, someone more positive in the scene, like the guys at polarfluke or something.

        Reply

        • Gavin Mannion

          October 13, 2013 at 19:32

          Yeah we’ve definitely learned a lot, but yes I would have stepped forward to be honest.. I was very surprised no one did.

          If you’re going to attack people then at least be ready to man up when the time comes.

          Reply

          • Brady miaau

            October 14, 2013 at 07:18

            Nah, most people do not work that way. It is a sad indictment.

            Bravery in numbers, draw strength from that, draw strength from being anonymous, that sort of thing drives people forward.

        • SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad

          October 14, 2013 at 08:20

          eSports is supposed to be an official sport now. Right? We’re meant to take them seriously as athletes? Then the ‘sport’ as a whole needs to get its act together on some decent spirit. When football fans go racial or abusive (home or away) then the team suffers serious consequences. If players (all the way down to conference leagues) behave in certain ways, then there are serious consequences.

          The problem is, we have an unregulated sport (no real governing body – global – continental – national – provincial – local) trying to establish itself with no real way of managing its fan and/or playerbase.

          As per your original comments – footballers often step up after significantly longer seasons to play invitationals, national games, etc. These athletes never shirk away from their responsibilities – and all that after physically, mentally, and emotionally strenuous seasons. Having had a ‘long’ season isn’t an excuse in any other sport. It’s not one here. And the fact that no one stepped forward in the “piss pool” is a clear indication of the calibre and quality of individuals we’re talking about here. No Gary Kirstens here, hey? No men to brave the winter storm to right the ship and bring in the catch. Nope. Only small men concerned with small things and small opinions. That is the internet as we know it. And gamers need to step up and separate them from the lavatory if we’re to even take them seriously.
          And go through a middle man? The what? I’ve never ever heard such nonsense. You need someone positive in the scene to be able to put on a display FOR the scene and enable two countries to compete in interesting friendlies that allows them to show their skill and COMPETE? All this organised by someone else? All you have to do is pitch up and watch/play? And now you’ve gotta go through a middle man? The. Fuck. Is. That. About?

          Truth. The DotA community has shown time and time again – worldwide – that it is one of the most abusive communities on the interwebz. We need ways to combat this now. Otherwise, no matter how hard some really great and dedicated people try, people in the real world will never take us seriously as a community. eSports is a way to validate our habit. DotA is one of the bigger eSports (following, prize money, etc). So it needs to lead the way. And its players are responsible for doing the same.

          Reply

          • Matthew Holliday

            October 14, 2013 at 10:03

            We’re supposed to have the MSSA to help regulate stuff and help.
            seeing as they arent doing that right, the players themselves have stepped forward in an attempt to make their own:
            https://www.facebook.com/groups/saesportsassociation
            as for your comments regarding when shit gets racial/abusive, im with you, they need to be held accountable by atleast their team management, and had certain people been reigned in much earlier, the outcome of that thread would have been much different.
            but most of the spite in that thread was posted by overentitled scrubs.

            the rest of your post (while quite valid) felt the same as the
            community you’re complaining about. “wtf is this shit?” “this is not
            good enough” etc

            I dont agree with your oversimplification of what the players have to do
            “All this organised by someone else? All you have to do is pitch up and
            watch/play?” yeah, its always that easy.

            my middle man suggestion was more of a marketing suggestion for player side interaction, PR work, especially when things are so tense between Gavin and Anthony (which is silly and pointless)
            i didnt study marketing or whatever, im just spitballing and trying to help, sue me.

          • SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad

            October 14, 2013 at 10:20

            You misunderstand. I’m not complaining about the DotA community. I’m positing widely understood perspective about the DotA community and putting it into context. They suck. End. I’m actually complaining about the lack of action taken by the community (pro players especially et al.) to actively combat it.

            I’m sorry you feel that the rest of my (quite valid) post is the same as the DotA community. I don’t feel that way. I think it’s constructive criticism highlighting clear inadequacies in the current system/structure and seeks to address what I feel or issues with your post.

            To go even further, I don’t oversimplify with my statement above that all players/fans have to do is pitch up and play/watch. That is exactly all they had to do with this event. The good folks at Lazygamer organised the entire thing on their own time (and if time is money – they’ve done a fair bit more than some to generate support for local eSports – which isn’t their job at all). It really is that easy for me to go watch it, thanks to these guys and girls (woefully underrepresented) putting in muchos effort. While your middle man suggestion may be worthwhile, I suggest that it is entirely unnecessary. It shouldn’t even BE an issue. Yet it saps the spotlight. What. The. Fuck. Is. Up. With. That? It’s a problem. It’s a serious problem. With the entire system.

            Can you imagine a Ryan Giggs testimonial that no one attended (or they flamed) because it was organised by the now departed Alex Ferguson since they all avidly supported the new ex-Lord of Everton? It’s blasphemy. It’s madness. But this is DotA. So we just kick people down a well and be done with it.

            Anyway. I’m trying to be constructive. This isn’t an act of aggression, bro. I’m just disagreeing in a friendly and efficient human manner. 🙂
            Also, much thanks for the Facebook group. I was not aware of it, and am very much ken to follow.

  2. Hillbillly Gamer

    October 13, 2013 at 20:41

    That’s why I prefer Co-op VS AI

    Reply

  3. NecroRince

    October 13, 2013 at 20:45

    I saw the thread before it was deleted and all it did was confirm that MANY MANY people who are in the DOTA community are dicks. There is a reason they have the worst reputation when it comes to people playing online, just sad that the decent people who want to play have to also deal with the bullshit vitirol from the community.Well done sector 17, screw the haters. Very sad and immature to the rest of you kids.

    Reply

    • Tiaan Pat

      October 14, 2013 at 07:13

      I don’t understand why the dota community has to be full of trolls and retards. Instead of building the the community the members break each other down and instead of teaching other people to play better they rage like 8 year old kids that didn’t get the toy they wanted.

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        October 14, 2013 at 07:32

        Hahaha, well put, that’s why I left

        Reply

        • Tiaan Pat

          October 14, 2013 at 07:38

          I think i posted one or two posts asking something and that was it for me. I hate people that treat you like trash and then expect you treat them with respect.

          Reply

      • SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad

        October 14, 2013 at 08:07

        This is mostly because they are eight year old kids who don’t know how to do anything but rage. I only play with people over 21 now. It is the only way to ensure you have access to enlightened, sentient gameplay with a tough of humanity that I need after a long day of work.

        Reply

        • Admiral Chief of Rivia

          October 14, 2013 at 08:16

          lulz @ “sentient gameplay”

          Reply

          • SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad

            October 14, 2013 at 08:28

            Sentience is important when your team is down 50 to 19 and you have already lost two raxx. That sort of subjectivity channels your energy into losing less hard – but analyzing mistakes and doing better next time. Rather than just rage at the hero with a 0/12/0 until he or she never plays DotA again.

            But yeah. After I posted that I was also like.. sentient gameplay? Wtf did I just write? 😛

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      October 14, 2013 at 07:32

      I feel ya man

      Reply

  4. Brady miaau

    October 14, 2013 at 07:19

    Hi, I know nothing about any of this stuff, but I have one question.

    Was the Dota community (bad rep not withstanding) not going to always reject a proposal or any attempt set something up from an outsider, however well meaning?

    Reply

    • Gavin Mannion

      October 14, 2013 at 07:34

      well some of the community really enjoyed it and helped.. It’s just the a small and very vocal minority who ruins it for everyone

      Reply

      • Brady miaau

        October 14, 2013 at 07:39

        Sounds like politics in general!

        Reply

  5. Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

    October 14, 2013 at 07:32

    Why is it that whenever anything Dota or LoL is run there is drama? Just an observation.

    Is it the community? The internet at large or what?

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      October 14, 2013 at 07:34

      SOOO glad I’m not part of that

      Reply

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        October 14, 2013 at 07:45

        Agreed dude. Reason I stopped playing Dota was the insane level of competition and the amount of hate generated because of it

        Reply

    • Tiaan Pat

      October 14, 2013 at 07:37

      It’s the internet that gives some people the idea that they can say anything without consequences. I mean why troll? Is it for fun? If so then it’s not needed in the community!!! I hate it when someone asks a question just to get 10 messages of retards trolling there hearts out because they think it’s cool or acceptable…

      Reply

      • Brady miaau

        October 14, 2013 at 07:38

        Indeed. I wish age = maturity, but it appears not.

        Ah, Jimmy. Why did Micheal have to save you?

        Reply

        • Tiaan Pat

          October 14, 2013 at 07:40

          On the internet there will never be age = maturity, seeing as people hide behind the internet and its so easy to say whatever you want with no thought of consequences…

          Reply

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        October 14, 2013 at 07:45

        This is true. But what I want to know is why is DOTA and LoL hit so hard.

        When a Starcraft tourny is organised, while there is drama, there is a lot less of it than there ever is in the DOTA and LoL scene.

        In dota it’s like people go on witch hunts. “this player isn’t good enough”, “that team shouldn’t exist”, blabalabla.

        Why is the internet at large better behaved with other games than Dota? That’s what I’m trying to figure out

        Reply

        • Matthew Holliday

          October 14, 2013 at 10:21

          the internet at large isnt better, its the platform thats being reported on.
          the dota 2 reddit, do gaming and personality pages are actually scarilly positive in comparison.
          this whole thing happened on a local facebook page that is just used for “omegerd i just played with 4 other Russians. game is hard.” posts and was triggered by individuals.

          I moderated 2 forums for other popular games, and on those ones, i was lucky if the users could string two words together.

          at large, the community itself is actually quite positive outside of the game, the commaraderie at rAge this year was apparently awesome, same as at lans like organised chaos.

          Reply

          • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

            October 14, 2013 at 11:23

            Interesting. You see I never hear these things. I never hear of Dota camaraderie.

    • TiMsTeR1033

      October 14, 2013 at 07:58

      Was there this much drama, with Counter strike and Warcraft 3? I doubt that!

      Reply

      • Sir Rants-a-Lot Llew

        October 14, 2013 at 08:12

        Not that I recall. But in all fairness I didn’t have as much access to info like I do know. Back in the day my source of gaming news was NAG magazine which I bought once a month.

        So not sure if these problems have always been as prominent everywhere and I just didn’t know or if Dota is just “that game” that makes people angry and mob like

        Reply

        • TiMsTeR1033

          October 14, 2013 at 08:23

          That is true, I used to buy NAG all the time, lately get much better news here.. Maybe this kinda stuff has been going on whole time! The only issue I remember long ago with counterstrike was the Camping and headshot hacks, but back to the topic at hand Dota community doesn’t seem very forgiving to newcomers at all. If you new and learning, can be a very painful experience I have heard first hand from a friend. It really should not be allowed to be this way, but what can people do to stop it?

          Reply

        • SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad

          October 14, 2013 at 08:24

          It’s competitive. Fair enough. So people are ganna get into it. But so is Rugby, Football, and Tennis. Even Golf is pretty competitive (ask Tiger). But you don’t see them acting like these dudes do. I once accidently took one kill the entire game as a support. The rage that descended upon me was worse than the Persians upon Leonidas and his brave 7 000.

          Anyway. DotA is played by passionate, but ultimately internet generation, people. This enables the troll and flames to grow as only the internet has allowed (i.e. any News24 discussion on race, politics, and/or relgion).

          Reply

          • Matthew Holliday

            October 14, 2013 at 10:05

            the “internet generation” sums it up nicely
            every scrub now has a place to post an oppinion

          • SargonTheGreatPandaOfAkkad

            October 14, 2013 at 10:35

            Everyone has always had a place to post an opinion. In Ancient Greece and Rome, this would be at the agora/forum. The difference isn’t the ability to pontificate a perspective. The differences is the anonymity that is now easily achieved, the emergence (and you could argue hegemony) of the “trolling” ethos, and the lowering of acceptable standards (and age) in meaningful debate structures.

      • Matthew Holliday

        October 14, 2013 at 09:11

        same amount, just less people to report on it.

        Reply

      • noxville

        October 14, 2013 at 11:46

        Still happens in some other titles:

        Reply

  6. Russki_ZA

    October 14, 2013 at 09:58

    Polarfluke stream was offline for me until like 20h30 and then I left. Was it ever streamed??

    Reply

    • Matthew Holliday

      October 14, 2013 at 10:05

      dont think so, Congo posted that there was a mix up with times and was unfortunately not able to cast it.

      Reply

      • Russki_ZA

        October 14, 2013 at 10:34

        Thanks. Wish they’d put up a notice or something though. :/

        Reply

        • noxville

          October 14, 2013 at 11:46

          Flukes computer sadly bombed (it was doing the streaming).

          Reply

    • PolarfluKe

      October 15, 2013 at 12:54

      The game was moved to 9:30 to facilitate people watching the Star Ladder Finals, the Energy vs Quetzal match was mostly stream until about half way into the second game where my power tripped and I could not get my PC to boot for the next 2 hours while troubleshooting. Ended up losing a hard drive. I am working on getting vods up for the games, but planning for a wedding my time is very limited at the moment 🙂

      Reply

  7. B4d R0b0t

    October 14, 2013 at 16:35

    Hopefully you do not stop trying to grow and support eSports. Thanks for the effort to far.

    Reply

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