There has been a ton of talk about inclusion in games. We need to have people of more walks of life represented in games to draw in a more inclusive audience – it doesn’t alienate those who are part of the majority, but it makes people in the minorities feel included. Bioware has always been ahead of the curve on this, and Dragon Age: Inquisition takes it to a new level. Warning: contains possible spoilers.
I am taking my time with my play through of Dragon Age: Inquisition. It’s part of why I didn’t want to review the game – so I could explore every aspect of the game without any rush. Last night, while talking to Iron Bull (yes, I’m trying to seduce him and making sure to have all the conversations possible) he said that I should meet the rest of his crew, The Chargers. I’d already had some chats with Crem, his second in command, but now I gained more insight into his character, and it was done so well. Just check out this video I captured:
After the cut scene where I met the rest of the crew, I went to speak to Iron Bull again. I chose the conversation options to push him about this second in command, to ask how he felt about the fact that under the armor, Crem was female. Iron Bull insisted that he’s a man, even if it’s harder for him to piss standing up.
This is a real triumph – for Bioware, for diversity, and for trans acceptance. They prove that all the characters involved don’t need to be women, or gay, or trans, or whatever to help promote acceptance of people of all walks of life. It’s particularly fitting that the burliest, most manly man of all the companions is the one who is so adamantly supportive of his trans friend. This scene made me so happy – I’ve known too many trans people who were made to feel like freaks. I hope that this helps boost acceptance, even in just a small way.
Kudos to Bioware. I’ve always been a fan, but now I’m even more of one.
Last Updated: December 4, 2014
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 4, 2014 at 11:06
If only conversations really went that way 🙁 End of the day we’re all human….Is it really that hard to just be tolerant?
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 11:10
*most of us are human.
Don’t make Trevor feel like an outcast now. He may be an alien, but he’s OUR alien.
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 11:17
It’s lonely at the top.
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 12:10
Bottoms up?
Thats_how_I_Troll
December 4, 2014 at 11:27
Like JarJar? #TROLLOLOLOLOHIHIHIHLOLOLO
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 11:17
Yes it is. Have you seen some of those people in the south? Yeesh.
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 12:11
Gauteng is north of us. ;P
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 12:35
There’s nothing over the mountains JJ. I don’t believe in those fairy tales.
Quo Vadis?
December 4, 2014 at 12:46
REGIONIST! PROVINCIALIST! BIGOT! This is discrimination! Why is this not rather a topic of discussion? I am feeling very excluded from the gaming community right now ;'( hahahahahaha
HvR
December 4, 2014 at 11:09
Feel that a photoshop opportunity involving Darryn and the interns’ faces was missed here.
Hammersteyn
December 4, 2014 at 11:11
http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/564245_o.gif
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 11:20
Zoe wants to mess with the Bull & get the horns! hur hur!
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 11:22
If they’re going to do it then that’s how it should be done. Matter of fact, that’s the way it is, boom done. You have a problem with it personally? Well that’s your problem.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:27
You know what? I’m going to sound like an ass now but who cares!?
Seriously? Why is it so important for games to be inclusive of everyone and their pet freaking rabbit who thinks it’s a cat!?
It doesn’t bloody matter. All this nonsense of having to embrace all walks of life in gaming is stupid. I’ve said it. It’s bloody stupid. I don’t care what they put in a game as long as the game is enjoyable.
Do not mistake this post for me not wanting all people to be treated equally. I really do want all people to feel comfortable in ANY HOBBY they chose. Whether it’s golf, gaming or freaking watching sports in jock straps.
What urks me is that gaming has become a freaking soap box for every “other” group out there who want to be noticed. Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and prove just how inclusive they are now. Seriously who cares? It’s gaming! Every person who enjoys looking at men (Whether you are gay, bi or trans) will enjoy looking at buff men in games. Does that buff character HAVE to be labled as trans in the game now? What about men who like looking at men but don’t want to look at transgender ones? Are THEY now suddenly being excluded?
Is everyone still following on with what I am trying to say?
The same for females. Every person who looks at females will enjoy looking at the pretty female in the game (Be they lesbian, bi or trans!) So why explicitly mention that a make believe character in game is one way or another? Does it even matter.
In fact this whole “make romantic relationships” in games business is actually just a cheap ploy to make sales better by companies trying to pretend to be inclusive of all the forms of gamer.
You know what would be inclusive? A good game that stops worrying about whether they are catering for absolutely every sexual preference out there and just make a game.
Has gaming seriously become like our South African sports where there is more politics involved than actually playing the game? Seriously? Is this what the industry is degenerating in to? Arguments about feminists taking it too far, woman being shown incorrectly, sexual preferences not being wide spread enough in games? Really? Is this what we want our games to be about?
Sorry, I know I’ve probably just stepped on a lot of people’s toes here and let me just end by saying that I don’t mind what your preference is. I honestly don’t. Who am I to judge anyone.
What does get to me is the fact that companies like Bioware keep throwing it in people’s faces and it’s actually sickening because they are actually enforcing the image that people who enjoy “other” styles of sexual orientation are still different because they apparently NEED different choices and people to specifically relate to in games.
Whatever happened to just being able to relate to the character based on their situation and not about what sexual preferance they are?
/rant
PS: Sorry if I insulted anyone. Honestly not my intention. Just tired of it always being made a big issue of when we should all just be playing games for the fun value and not worrying about what the game creators have to say about sexual orientation which is really no-one else’s business and is a very personal thing for each and every individual.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:27
Forgot the gif:
https://missingperspective.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/tumblr_ls400ejkpe1r317bvo1_250.gif
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 4, 2014 at 11:31
Its important to be inclusive so that it breeds tolerance….Its small steps to achieve something greater.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:33
And I’m ok with it. But the whole thing of “If you are not being inclusive in a game you get bashed for it” thing is getting annoying. People take all other RPG’s not Bioware and go “Why is this not more inclusive!” bla bla bla. It’s pathetic.
As I said. I don’t mind the whole inclusiveness thing. I just think the politics behind it is getting out of hand
Matthew Holliday
December 4, 2014 at 11:41
i get the feeling that you would have been fine with it, so long as no one made a big deal of it.
im pretty much the same, its there, cool, equality and stuff is good. no need to make a fuss.
so long as people are making a fuss about it, it will never feel natural and equal.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:44
Exactly that. Making a big deal of it makes it seem like there is something “different” about it and not normal. Just… you know.. Let it be. No need to point flashing arrows and emblazen with stars kinda thing
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 4, 2014 at 11:54
Thing is, with all the discrimination going on you have to celebrate it and make it a big thing. Rather celebrate inclusion than letting it go unnoticed.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:57
But there is such a fine line because overdo it and suddenly people get it in their heads it should be the same in every game (It’s already happening) and you end up with people, who aren’t even part of the target group, trying to white knight a cause and just end up doing more damage than good.
Developers start catering for everyone, quality of games go down while they try make all conceivable options fit etc. It’s a potentially terrible downward spiral.
Tolerance is important. But one needs to be weary and careful how you do it. White Knighting a cause is often a surefire way of making it bad. Just look at how quickly the feminism in gaming thing spiraled out of control once everyone started jumping on board.
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 4, 2014 at 12:02
I understand where you’re coming from, but we are FAAAAAR away from that point. We need to get to a point where being DIFFERENT is NORMAL.
The feminism thing goes overboard yes, but I firmly believe, to a degree, its needed. We have to get to a point where we can all agree with your sentiments, that we can just let things be, because it IS normal. Unfortunately…its not viewed as normal right now.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 12:22
And there I agree too. It has to reach that point. I just don’t think it’s going to by hammering on it all the time. I think a more subtle approach is needed where it’s just one of those things that people notice more in games until such a point where they don’t notice it anymore because it’s not a thing seen as odd
I'm really feeling it! (Umar)
December 4, 2014 at 12:43
Can’t agree lol but I can respect that though, I feel we long past the point of subtlety. When people get death threats and harassment to the point of reaching out the victims homes, then yeah…I don’t believe we should be subtle about anything anymore. That said, in terms of games….It should still be relevant to the game and story, that I can agree with. In terms of DA. its a very small factor in the larger scheme of the game
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 13:24
It’s fine in DA. As I said I don’t have an issue.
I can understand why you don’t agree with me. I think the point is simply how it’s done.
Instead of shoving it down people’s throats (Not what this article is doing in any way, nor what Zoe does for clarification) they should rather focus on uplifiting that part of the community. Tell them they are awesome and stop having the world scoff at how short sighted the rest of the world is because they can’t understand. Get what I’m saying. I get angry because I am made to feel bad because others hate against the LBGT community. I am part of the demographic and therefore instantly an enemy and I’ve done nothing to warrant that.
Do you know how many times I’ve been attacked online for making it known that I am a straight, white male? But shout out that you are a crow loving rabbit that thinks it’s a cat and everyone must suddenly stand in awe? It’s not fair that I get seen as an asshat while the rabbitcat must be seen as oppressed when in actual fact I’m the oppressed one because I can’t shout out what I am and be proud of it because apparently it’s something I should be ashamed off
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 11:39
Dude… no. A lot of people care. Clearly Bioware did. I would imagine trans peope care a great deal too to get a nod like this. And that’s all it is. They didn’t make a big deal out of it, they didn’t make it a selling point of the game, it’s just there, and Zoe mentioned it because she thought it was cool of them. It’s not shoved down your throat by the company or the game. Please don’t make this some PC inclusive parade argument that taking escapism away from you. It does not such thing.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:43
Not aimaing at Bioware or Zoe here. It’s not specifically this article that got my hairs on end. It was just a relevant topic where I could say my say. The last while in gaming has all been “Feminst, racist, religionist, not enough inclusion etc”.
It just seems to me that games lately are more about the politics of people than it is about playing the game.
So yeah, not ranting against this specific article. I should have included in my rant that while I hate what gaming is becoming I do like the way Bioware approach it. It’s mostly what happens when a game doesn’t do it like bioware that raises my hackles because people lose their shiz and start comparing and complaining a game isn’t inclusive enough.
Make more sense where I am coming from now?
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 11:47
Yip, i understand. I do agree that sometimes it’s very overblown. Sometimes it’s valid criticism, sometimes it isn’t.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:48
agreed.
Admiral Chief BellatorMachina
December 8, 2014 at 09:56
*aiming
Tauriq Moosa
December 4, 2014 at 12:45
>>> Seriously? Why is it so important for games to be inclusive of everyone and their pet freaking rabbit who thinks it’s a cat!?
Wow.
>> It doesn’t bloody matter.
It doesn’t matter that we’re inclusive?
>> All this nonsense of having to embrace all walks of life in gaming is stupid. I’ve said it. It’s bloody stupid. I don’t care what they put in a game as long as the game is enjoyable.
A game isn’t enjoyable when it’s continues racist and sexist elements people live with everyday. You have the advantage of not probably living with a lot of bigoted responses. But when it crops up in an area you adore, you can’t enjoy it specifically because the continued bigotry you experience is now on your screen. And everywhere else.
>> I really do want all people to feel comfortable in ANY HOBBY they chose.
This does not square with your assertion that “it doesn’t bloody matter”. Does it matter? If it doesn’t matter, then you don’t care whether “all people feel comfortable in any hobby”. There’s no law that you have to want inclusivity – it just doesn’t square up with your previous assertion.
>> What urks me is that gaming has become a freaking soap box for every “other” group out there who want to be noticed.
In this very sentence, you’re reinforcing the notion that non-whites, non-males, etc., are “other”. The whole point is that we want not to be treated as “other”. White straight men are already the default and we think that shouldn’t be case. It’s a soapbox because we get responses and reinforcement that keep perpetuating the notion that there exist a group of people who are “other” by virtue of their identity. If you really want people to feel inclusive, you’ll recognise that gaming as it is now is itself a soapbox for straight white male power fantasies. That’s the norm. It shouldn’t be. We shouldn’t be able to predict that the next Call of Duty will star a white male. Other people exist but that doesn’t make them “other”; it makes them people.
Complaining that they’re not taking such attitudes lying down reinforces the very environment that is not inclusive.
>> Everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and prove just how inclusive they are now. Seriously who cares?
People who are “other” groups. They care. So do many developers, creators, writers – including major companies like Marvel. They care.
>> It’s gaming! Every person who enjoys looking at men (Whether you are gay, bi or trans) will enjoy looking at buff men in games. Does that buff character HAVE to be labled as trans in the game now? What about men who like looking at men but don’t want to look at transgender ones? Are THEY now suddenly being excluded?
??
>> The same for females.
“Women” is a better phrase than a biological category for species.
>> Every person who looks at females will enjoy looking at the pretty female in the game (Be they lesbian, bi or trans!) So why explicitly mention that a make believe character in game is one way or another? Does it even matter.
It does to me and it does to the transgender community. And apparently, given your long comment, it matters to you, too.
>> In fact this whole “make romantic relationships” in games business is actually just a cheap ploy to make sales better by companies trying to pretend to be inclusive of all the forms of gamer.
The entire aspect is pretend – but that doesn’t mean fiction doesn’t reinforce aspects of reality we’re combatting such as sexism.
>> You know what would be inclusive? A good game that stops worrying about whether they are catering for absolutely every sexual preference out there and just make a game.
Race and sex blindness isn’t a virtue: being blind is precisely the problem. Just because it’s difficult to be inclusive doesn’t mean you stop trying. I’d rather games make attempts – as companies, films, directors, and other huge players are trying – than not try at all and hide behind the claim the don’t see race or sex. I see race and sex; I see it because those things impact lives because society as a whole does. I’d love it if society doesn’t, but it does.
>> Has gaming seriously become like our South African sports where there is more politics involved than actually playing the game?
How are you measuring this? I play plenty of games, while also writing about social issues. Why does it matter to you what other are spending more time on?
>> Seriously? Is this what the industry is degenerating in to? Arguments about feminists taking it too far, woman being shown incorrectly, sexual preferences not being wide spread enough in games? Really? Is this what we want our games to be about?
Yes. And we can do better.
>> What does get to me is the fact that companies like Bioware keep throwing it in people’s faces and it’s actually sickening because they are actually enforcing the image that people who enjoy “other” styles of sexual orientation are still different because they apparently NEED different choices and people to specifically relate to in games.
No. Society does that. And you can romance and sexual orientation are up to the player. Even if it wasn’t, why is straight relationships normal but the inclusion of non-straight is an “agenda”. Both are agendas – frankly we need more of the latter that encourages us to see different kinds of lives.
>> Whatever happened to just being able to relate to the character based on their situation and not about what sexual preferance they are?
You’re assuming everyone ever could. I’ve never been able to “relate” to a straight white military man with no neck. So that’s never happened for me but that’s many, many games. Whatever happened to being able to relate? I hardly ever could!
Because in many games, women, gay people, the transgender community don’t exist. As a person of colour, I really hate that I find so few to identify with. Why would games not want more people playing? It even makes business sense to cater to more people.
That doesn’t mean every game studio ever must have some token woman, person of colour, etc.,; it means we should progress to recognise their absence and try include more people because people exist.
>> Just tired of it always being made a big issue of when we should all just be playing games for the fun
value and not worrying about what the game creators have to say about sexual orientation which is really no-one else’s business and is a very personal thing for each and every individual.
Absence of my race or sexual orientation IS saying something – it’s saying we don’t matter. It’s not intentional, of course, but that kind of makes it worse. Look at how Saints Row devs responded: they acknowledged their unthinking sexism and are trying to do better. I fail to see how trying to do better and be inclusive is a bad thing. No one is forcing them to, they’re adults who came to that decision for themselves.
Games aren’t just for fun – they’re a part of culture and can be explored and interrogated as such, as books and films can. You don’t have to, no one’s stopping you from enjoying COD. But I know I don’t have as much “fun” when no character models exist except white people.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 13:04
You know what urks me about you? Your ability to break down a rant like mine and make me feel like absolute poop.
Let me try again but from a more calm perspective.
I feel that the whole push for inclusion is important. Yes. 100% absolutely. It has to happen. The gaming industry has a long history of being very much, straight male territory. But that is all changing and at a rapid rate too.
I do feel however, that some of it is being pushed over the top.
Let’s take Bioware as an example. They are able to incorporate things like cross-gender relationships and “other” (and here I use other not as derogatory, but rather just as an indicator for everything not the same preferance as me which is far more than just LGBT as it includes that strange rabbit who thinks it’s a cat. I have no issue with the rabbitcat. I am the last person who is allowed to judge anyone by their preference.) anyway moving on: they do these relationships really well. But, the world takes this and “white knights” it. It becomes a flag to shove up everyone elses noses. It becomes a thing of “Look! Include this because you are bigoted and self righteous and you should feel bad!” and it really does invoke that feeling for many people. I know it does for me. I feel attacked all the time for being straight, male in the gaming industry. I have to be told how games are catered for only me and I should feel crap for it. Heck half the time I don’t even enjoy these “straight male aimed” games. I prefer the ones with more depth. Sir-no-neck-marine is rather dull and I agree with you there. I can’t relate to him either and I’m apparently meant to be able to since I am white, male and straight.
The soapbox I refer to isn’t about making it known to the world. It’s the WAY in which it is being made known. People take it and run with it and go overboard.
Yes, all walks of life want to be able to relate and perhaps my statement of “Does it matter” was a bit short sighted (Ok, honestly very short sighted. I was annoyed at the time and my words REALLY could have been chosen better)
The hard truth of it however is that while everyone jumps on board and says that games must be inclusive (Which they must be yes) they forget about the harm and hurt they are causing the “standard” (I use standard just as an indicator not a qualifying statement) player such as myself. It hurts when I get lumped with the crowd being labeled as the “oppressors” and the “straight male gamer that is the problem”. It hurts a lot and that’s why I get annoyed when it is shoved in people’s faces all the time. I didn’t make the industry what it is and I could even help change it for the better and to be more inclusive. But instead I am seen as “the enemy”.
Tauriq Moosa
December 4, 2014 at 13:24
Appreciate your reply and your self-corrections. That’s awesome 🙂
Second, I don’t know how to respond to this but it troubles me, because I don’t want to see you or anyone be or feel hurt.
>> It hurts when I get lumped with the crowd being labeled as the “oppressors” and the “straight male gamer that is the problem”. It hurts a lot
I don’t think all straight white guys are bad – I don’t think they’re sexist or bigoted or whatever; I think they benefit and the realisation of this, the loss of entitlement to games catering for the default will hurt. But that “hurt” is not something I can kowtow to because of the actual, consistent minimisation and dismissal over our complete non-existence.
Many straight white guys don’t feel hurt, are at the forefront of this change – as you well know and see – so I think the more appropriate response would be to ask why they feel enthusiasm, but you feel hurt. I don’t mean to minimise any pain you might feel, but I think it’s an opportunity for self-exploration – not a reason to point to your pain as if that’s sufficient reason, however bad it might be.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 13:37
“But that “hurt” is not something I can kowtow to because of the actual, consistent minimisation and dismissal over our complete non-existence”
You see this is what I am referring to. You feel like you are being dismissed and are completely non-existant in the industry and I can see how that happens because yes, it’s a straight male dominated industry. But now you say that you can’t accept or respect the fact that people like me do get hurt in the process? This is exactly why I get so angry.
Yes there are guys at the forefront who are helping to make things better. Does that diminish the fact that people like me do get hurt? No and it shouldn’t.
There have to be better ways of getting inclusivity (is that a word? It’s a word now) apart from pointing out how we straight male gamers constantly are trying to prevent it or force devs to cater only for us. It’s simply not true and it does hurt. You may not be able to kowtow to it, but it is a harsh reality that in this “war”, if you will, people are being hurt on both sides. I am tired of constantly reading on the net how white, male gamers are the problem for absolultey everything. Whether it be crimes against woman, gays, lesbians, whoever.
Yes there are people who cannot and will not live and let live. Yes you get those who will use “gay” as a derogatory term. Yes you get those who will violently threaten anyone different to them, but they simply are not the majority. They are just more vocal.
Also, games are more inclusive and they are getting better at it each and every time. The arguments needs to stop being “it’s not enough” and need to start being “see how awesome the industry is as it leads the way for all other industries to follow”
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 13:30
I like you Sir Rants. You make sense.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 13:37
except when I explode like my original post. Then I just sound like an ass
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 13:39
Everyone does that once in a while. Myself included.
Admiral Chief BellatorMachina
December 8, 2014 at 09:55
*irks
DiscordianKitty
December 4, 2014 at 13:22
“Why is it so important for games to be inclusive of everyone and their pet freaking rabbit who thinks it’s a cat!?”
Because people like you still think it’s actually OK to respond this way to inclusiveness in gaming?
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 13:28
You should read it all. I am pissed that it is shoved down my throat all the time when I have no issue with whatever your preference is. I just want to play games and not be told how stupid I am or that games are only catered towards me. I have actually had quite enough of being made to feel bad for being straight, white and male.
Inclusivity in games is fine, but not at the expense of people like myself who get lumped up in 1 catagory and told we should feel bad that the industry isn’t inclusive enough when I honestly don’t care what gender, race or preference you are. Just let me enjoy my games. If there’s an option for same-sex relationships in a game. Cool. Just stop shoving it down my throat
DiscordianKitty
December 4, 2014 at 13:42
I read it all. I also think Tauriq did a perfect job at pointing out most of the problems with what you said.
But you gotta know, “everyone and their pet freaking rabbit who thinks it’s a cat!?” in response to an article about the inclusion of trans people, is some horrendous and deeply hurtful transphobia.
You’re going to have to forgive me if I’m less than sympathetic about your straight, cis, white man feelings when you think it’s completely OK to actively complain about trying to consider the feelings of others who aren’t straight, cis, white men. You’re also going to have to forgive me if I’m not overly concerned about your feels when you’re quite happy to open with that rabbit cat statement.
When you show such open contempt for the feelings of others, you don’t get to start demanding that your feelings be considered.
DiscordianKitty
December 4, 2014 at 13:48
Sorry, not considered. Prioritized. You’re expecting your feelings, and how YOU feel when people are trying to talk about issues that you (incorrectly) think don’t matter, to be prioritized.
What you’re experiencing is a loss of comfort. You’re used to being pandered to as the only person who matters, and that’s not going on anymore, because other people actually do matter as much as you do. You need to get over that.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 13:58
And yes, I agree that my original post was very hurtful. It was said with a lot of anger and annoyance caused by every other article everywhere being about how we as straight white males, should feel bad.
Were my words wrong? Yes. Could they have been better chosen? I don’t know as I am not sure how I can comment without sounding bigoted because I am white, straight and male. I am automatically seen as the enemy so I am not sure how to really put words down for it without sounding like a complete ass.
Look, games have to be more inclusive. Yes. I realise how insensitive I sounded and yes I was way over the line. But I feel the way in which it’s all being done is wrong.
If it’s not feminism in gaming, it’s that there’s no tolerance for what isn’t considered “normal” and we get the blame for it all the time.
Also, I have no loss of comfort. I’ve often taken relationship options that aren’t my preference because that’s where I wanted the game to go. I’m honestly not phased about who the options are catered towards. If it benefits me to do so in my gaming experience then I will take the option. You are assuming that I am upset over the loss of being pandered for when you know nothing of me or what my lifestyle is. 2 of my very best friends are gay. I have no issue with gay people or any other preference (and yes, it makes my original post even more unfortunate because the words I chose were exceptionally poor)
All I’m saying and what I originally really wanted to say was that I am tired of being made to feel bad for what the industry does. As a gamer I really and truly just want to play games. I couldn’t care less who it’s catered towards because it’s a non-issue for me as I would play a game aimed at straight, white males as much as I would play a game aimed at lesbians, gays or transgender.
I really do feel there are better ways to uplift what is considered “Other” people types in games. Options that don’t revolve around pointing out how biased the industry is.
For my rabbit/cat comments I am really and truly sorry and they are words that never should have been uttered. They were however. I can’t change that but I can apologise and hope to move on from there
DiscordianKitty
December 4, 2014 at 14:15
Tauriq is answering most of your points, so I don’t really see the need to repeat the arguments.
No one is trying to make straight white males feel bad for just being straight white males.
There is, perhaps, some impatience with straight white males recently, due to the attitude that tends to come exclusively from straight white males, not because they happen to be straight, white, and male, but because they happen to have grown up in a culture that has pandered to straight white males to a point where a lot of straight white males are entirely focused on their own feelings and issues, while quite often extremely dismissive of the real problems others face. Example: Your OP.
The fact that you feel personally attacked by the discussions surrounding the inclusion of others does not indicate a problem with those discussions. It indicates a need for you to self examine more.
I really think, when you’re so close to being, you admit, extremely hurtful in rage, you need to take a step back and consider listening to what others have to say rather than repeating your own beliefs.
Have you considered that you’re wrong?
“I am tired of being made to feel bad for what the industry does.”
Oh shame. Poor you.
I am tired of being made to feel like my issues are not as important as making sure you don’t have bad feels. I am tired of straight white males taking personal offense when problems with the industry are being discussed and talked about. I am tired of overly sensitive boys who are so focused on their own feelings that they even think for a second that “I just want to play games” is a fair demand that needs to be considered when so many others simply just don’t GET to “just play games” without ever feeling ignored, insulted, or attacked, simply because they don’t happen to be straight, white men.
Weanerdog
December 4, 2014 at 14:22
“oh shame poor you”
This is what is wrong with everything. Absolute zero tolerance for others opinions or feelings.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 14:38
We clearly aren’t understanding eachother and I believe therein lies one of the greatest and most difficult challenges in this entire set of arguments.
You feel I should stop feeling bad, I feel you should. It’s a constant tennis match between all parties.
Have I considered that I am wrong? Often. I often consider the facts and often when I feel I am wrong admit to it (Case and point my OP was horrendous and unacceptable and I accept that fact, apologise and hopefully can go forward with a more calm back and forth)
The thing is I can accept my flaws, admit them in the open and move on. That doesn’t mean that my points aren’t valid. That doesn’t mean that I am not allowed to take offence that the stigma behind all of this is that white, straight males are at fault. Sorry, but that is how I feel and unless something changes in the way these things are approached by everyone, I don’t see it changing anytime soon. Oversensitive? Sure. It’s one of my most valued personality traits. I am generally a very sensitive person (my OP excluded) who tries to view something from all sides. But unfortunately due to this trait I also am affected a little more by outside sources. Including generalisations thrown at specific groups that may include me.
Do I need you to feel sorry for me? No. Absolutely not. It’s not the point. So saying something like “poor you” is really a poor show. It emphasises my point that there is no tolerance from any side.
Maybe we all simply take gaming too seriously. Perhaps we all need to step back (yes myself included as you pointed out) and stop for a moment and realise it’s just gaming. It’s not the end of the world if someone blames white, males for all their problems. It doesn’t matter that someone is standing up shouting there aren’t enough gays and lesbians in games. None of it actually matters because at the end of the day what DOES matter is our attitude towards eachother. Our tolerance towards others when we game with them. When we meet online and I hear you are gay/lesbian etc you have a right to be able to tell me openly without me judging you. But on the flip side I have a right to a open descent conversation without the person on the other side pretending to be someone else just because they think I am going to judge them.
This issue is not black and white. It’s all sorts of grey’s and no one group can truly understand the other group.
And this is why I say it doesn’t matter what the developers do. It doesn’t start with them. It starts with us gamers. We become more tolerant and the game companies will naturally follow. We as the community should start to show more respect (yes, I messed that one up badly with my OP and goes against what I am saying right now. Anger and frustration have a way of making people say and act all kinds of crazy).
The pressure being put on everyone with game studios and the media throwing out so many varying viewpoints is exceptionally frustrating for guys like me and I bet it’s just as frustrating for other groups as well.
In closing, yes, I was wrong in my OP. Yes, I may even seem like an asshole and well, I can’t really stand here and tell you I’m not.
I do care about the people. I don’t care about the publishers and their efforts because they are doing it for the money. To gain a fake respect from all walks of life. They don’t really understand the people they are trying to cater to. They are simply using it as an opportunity to cash grab and to coat it with “Oh look how good we are for everyone” and it actually makes me angry. They aren’t doing it for you or me. The only people who can make it better and truly inclusive for you, me or anyone else is you and me and the rest of the community
DiscordianKitty
December 4, 2014 at 15:15
Two things:
First: the “Oh shame, poor you,” statement has nothing to do with tolerance. (And I note the guy whose only contribution to this conversation is to pounce on the feminist the moment he spots something he thinks could potentially be used to prove that she’s the real problem here and scream “intolerant!”) It is an honest and, I consider, fair expression of annoyance and impatience. I genuinely struggle to feel concerned that you think that you’re being made to feel bad for what the industry does. People are losing arms and you’re trying to show me this little cut on your finger that you swear was caused by someone trying to sew an arm back onto themselves. (Sorry, slightly messy analogy but I’m trying to use hyperbole to make a point.)
Second, I’m glad you can acknowledge that you’re wrong in your OP. However, even in my most angry, ranty moment I never write things I don’t already believe on at least some level, and when I’ve screwed up, it takes time for me to completely identify what’s wrong, what was behind the screw up, and to reassess my views on the world. Which is why I’m not ready to ignore and put aside that OP and discuss this issue with you yet. Admitting where you were at fault is a good start, but if you really do see what’s wrong, I think you should take some longer time to consider and really self-examine. Honestly at this point, you’re still too mentally close to angrily raging about how diversity is stupid.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 15:22
Fair enough. If you don’t want to discuss then we don’t. Just remember one thing: what you do in any situation is not the same as anyone else.
That being said, I still stick to my most basic belief from the OP that it doesn’t matter what’s being represented in game. It can’t matter until gamers start becoming more tolerant. You can have a game completely based around gay people and it would mean squat if the people playing the game aren’t tolerant of eachother. Just wish I’d used a bit calmer tone originally to convey what I feel.
Buuuuut that’s just what happened and I can’t change it so it remains as it is I guess. Look, again, I do apologise, and I’d actually really like to calmly, have a discussion around this with you at some point
geelslang
December 4, 2014 at 14:38
Oh god, Its angry Laura, run everyone, RUN!
Matthew Holliday
December 4, 2014 at 11:38
finished the game last night.
dat last scene, wtf. you dont just end it like that without an explanation! i dont know what even.
overall impressions from the game.
crafting is cool, but schematics in the late game are hard to come by, i crafted my final bow and armour from schematics id had for ages, with only the one vendor in the hissing wastes that offers decent t3 schematics.
the finite amount of dragon resources limits the top tier crafting.
the story was less interesting than the side quests and enemy scaling is poor, i qrushed the final mission, wasnt a challenge at all. early to midgame is fun and challenging though.
characters could be a bit more compelling, my inquisitor didnt feel like a boss and the dialogue was pretty damn wooden. dialogue prompts could also be a little more clear, the number of times i googled to find out what the guys responses would be to certain answers and questions was a bit annoying.
character consistancy was also a problem, a number of comments in the game made me feel pretty two faced about where my loyalties lie. there was simply too much to keep consistant.
not sure it deserved 9/10 reviews, maybe 8/10 would be more accurate, its a great game, 90 hours of goodness, it just needs a tiny bit more polish to the characters, enemy scaling and crafting to be one of the greats.
Goal9
December 4, 2014 at 11:40
As much as I support diversity in gaming, this soapbox pandering is very much in your face and more for the benefit of EA than the players. I also hate the fact that EA is pretty much using us gays as a shield from criticism; not from the inclusion of homosexual characters, but for their business practices. Lumping it all together as homophobia.
geelslang
December 4, 2014 at 12:19
I certainly agree with the soapbox pandering in your face for the benefit of EA part.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 11:51
PPS: Zoe, my rant below is not aimed at you or this article. Just so you know
Jonah Cash
December 4, 2014 at 11:59
My ADSL line is back up………. On a related note, screw you all for not missing me!!! Good to be back again!!
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 12:00
Who are you again? *runs*
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 12:00
I missed you Steve!
Jonah Cash
December 4, 2014 at 12:03
Nice that is what one gets for being away!! One names you on the wrong name and the other doesn’t even remember you… So much for the awesome community that Gavin keeps going on about!!
Alien Emperor Trevor
December 4, 2014 at 12:04
😀
RinceThis
December 4, 2014 at 12:16
Gavin lies… ALWAYS.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 12:24
Awesome community? No dude. This isn’t news24. #trollol
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 12:28
News24 is like Ravenholm to me “We don’t go there anymore”
Quo Vadis?
December 4, 2014 at 12:40
if you want to fix SA, just go to the comments section of News24. There you will find, amongst others, politicians, lawyers, doctors, ethicists, veterinarians etc. And they “know” what they’re talking about!
Jonah Cash
December 4, 2014 at 12:30
Some of those people need to get their internet privileges taken away!! That place is hectic!!
Captain JJ the fair
December 4, 2014 at 12:11
Always good to see Steve.
Raptor Rants A Lot
December 4, 2014 at 12:26
Steve from Bleep Bank? So that’s who he is!
RinceThis
December 4, 2014 at 12:16
Kyle! That you?!
Hammersteyn
December 4, 2014 at 12:33
Heeeeeey Frikkie!
CAE9872
December 4, 2014 at 12:41
*and the crowd goes wild for the return of Cash*
There! Feel better now?
Jonah Cash
December 4, 2014 at 17:52
A ton better!!!
CAE9872
December 4, 2014 at 12:42
PS – Hammersteyn actually mentioned the other day that the place was starting to look like a graveyard…can be quiet so peeps all on leave already? I am not 🙁
HvR
December 4, 2014 at 14:38
Not on leave, trying my best to get everything finished to able to take my leave and not work over Christmas.
Jonah Cash
December 4, 2014 at 17:51
What is a leave? Is it something you can order at Burger King?
RinceThis
December 4, 2014 at 12:17
Make it all DA same!