Home Gaming Is Nvidia being anti-competitive with GameWorks?

Is Nvidia being anti-competitive with GameWorks?

7 min read
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Nvidia

Nvidia’s GameWorks has been a topic of contention since its inception. According to Nvidia’s it “NVIDIA GameWorks pushes the limits of gaming by providing a more interactive and cinematic game experience and thus enabling next gen gaming for current games.” It’s a set of tools to enable developers to incorporate visually impressive technologies like Horizon Based Ambient Occlusion, Temporal Anti-aliasing, Soft Shadows and other needlessly long terms that get turned in to back-of-the box marketing acronyms. The criticism has been that games that utilise GameWorks tend to run poorly on machines that are stuffed with AMD hardware. Those complaints are being levied anew thanks to its inclusion in two big new games: The Witcher 3 and Project Cars.

While it seems Like The Witcher 3 runs just fine on both brands of GPU (we won’t really know until it’s out in the wild for more people), Many AMD users are complaining that Project Cars is a bit of a mess on AMD – and they’re pointing the blame at Nvidia….mostly.

It seems like even some of AMD’s higher-tiered cards are struggling to run the game, being bested by the mid-range Maxwell 960 from Nvidia. According to Techspot’s benchmarks, Nvidia’s GTX 960 is beating out AMD’s R9 290X in frames per second – which makes very little sense given the power disparity – in AMD’s favour – between the cards. The culprit? It could be PhysX, which forms part of Nvidia’s Gameworks (Slightly Mad has since confirmed that Project Cars is not a GameWorks title).

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According to users on Anandtech:

“The game runs PhysX version 3.2.4.1. It is a CPU based PhysX. Some features of it can be offloaded onto NVidia GPUs. Naturally AMD can’t do this.

In Project Cars, PhysX is the main component that the game engine is built around. There is no “On / Off” switch as it is integrated into every calculation that the game engine performs. It does 600 calculations per second to create the best feeling of control in the game. The grip of the tires is determined by the amount of tire patch on the road. So it matters if your car is leaning going into a curve as you will have less tire patch on the ground and subsequently spin out. Most of the other racers on the market have much less robust physics engines.”

Another post on the forums says this:

“SMS knew for the past 3 years that Nvidia based PhysX effects in their game caused the frame rate to tank into the sub 20 fps region for AMD users. It is not something that occurred overnight or the past few months. It didn’t creep in suddenly. It was always there from day one.

Since the game uses GameWorks, then the ball is in Nvidia’s court to optimize the code so that AMD cards can run it properly. Or wait for AMD to work around GameWorks within their drivers. Nvidia is banking on taking months to get right because of the code obfuscation in the GameWorks libraries as this is their new strategy to get more customers.

Break the game for the competition’s hardware and hope they migrate to them. If they leave the PC Gaming culture then it’s fine; they weren’t our customers in the first place.”

Essentially, Project Cars is doing a ton of PhysX calculations, which are necessary for the game’s systems to function – but instead of being offloaded on to the GPU as they would be on Nvidia systems, the calculations are being done by the CPU on AMD ones, resulting in a significant performance hit. As it stands now, there’s no solution to this. And with Gameworks being NVidia proprietary stuff, it leaves Nvidia in charge of optimising games that utilise its technologies.

What’s jarring, and a little disturbing, is that it seems as though GameWorks allows Nvidia to gimp its own cards too – with its older, Kepler-based cards like the original Titan only beating out the GTX 960 by two frames per second. That’s inconceivable.

Why would developers opt to use GameWorks, if it cuts out AMD users? Well for starters, Nvidia has an absolute stranglehold on the GPU market, and using Gameworks allows then to make their games look better for most PC gamers, while using GameWorks as a sort of visual and physics effects middleware.

“For developers it’s a way to save money by using nvidia’s pre-baked effects by building the Gameworks libraries into the game. Often they can’t even see in the gameworks dlls. Can’t get source code and nvidia now has a way to directly manipulate performance in games that make heavy use of it. They can cripple AMD’s cards, cripple their own last generation cards etc. Which is what we see happen in the gameworks games, they’ve all been outliers to the typical performance hierarchy we see of currently released GPUs, showing awful performance on AMD cards and terrible performance for nvidia’s own Kepler cards. Then a game patch comes out down the road after reviews have been done and lessens it.”

Hairworks

Many are concerned that The Witcher 3, which launches tomorrow as a GameWorks title – will perform worse than it rightly should on AMD hardware. Indeed, it’s something CD Projekt RED has admitted to, regarding NVidia’s HairWorks at least.

CD Project’s Marcin Momot said they’re unable to get HairWorks playing nicely with AMD.

“Many of you have asked us if AMD Radeon GPUs would be able to run NVIDIA’s HairWorks technology – the answer is yes! However, unsatisfactory performance may be experienced as the code of this feature cannot be optimized for AMD products. Radeon users are encouraged to disable NVIDIA HairWorks if the performance is below expectations.”

The chaps from PC Perspective asked NVidia’s Brian Burke about the implementation of the tech in The Witcher 3.

“We are not asking game developers do anything unethical.

GameWorks improves the visual quality of games running on GeForce for our customers.  It does not impair performance on competing hardware.
Demanding source code access to all our cool technology is an attempt to deflect their performance issues. Giving away your IP, your source code, is uncommon for anyone in the industry, including middleware providers and game developers. Most of the time we optimize games based on binary builds, not source code.

GameWorks licenses follow standard industry practice.  GameWorks source code is provided to developers that request it under license, but they can’t redistribute our source code to anyone who does not have a license.

The bottom line is AMD’s tessellation performance is not very good and there is not a lot NVIDIA can/should do about it. Using DX11 tessellation has sound technical reasoning behind it, it helps to keep the GPU memory footprint small so multiple characters can use hair and fur at the same time.
I believe it is a resource issue. NVIDIA spent a lot of artist and engineering resources to help make Witcher 3 better. I would assume that AMD could have done the same thing because our agreements with developers don’t prevent them from working with other IHVs. (See also, Project Cars)

I think gamers want better hair, better fur, better lighting, better shadows and better effects in their games. GameWorks gives them that.“

What do you think? Is it just down to better drivers? Nvidia has been releasing new drivers for just about every major release, where AMD’s a little slower on its driver releases. Or is it a bit more nefarious than that? Is Nvidia using its leverage with GameWorks and its market dominance to further wrest control from AMD?

Last Updated: May 18, 2015

156 Comments

  1. Captain JJ Browman

    May 18, 2015 at 12:32

    Yes, I think better drivers would make a difference in Project CARS.
    It should help with those lap times.
    That’s what we’re talking about, right?

    Reply

    • HairyEwok

      May 18, 2015 at 12:33

      More FPS means you’ll get over the finish line quicker right?

      Reply

      • Captain JJ Browman

        May 18, 2015 at 12:36

        Probably.
        I mean, if they just send those to a driving school the drivers really shouldn’t be a problem at all. I don’t see why nVidia needs to be blamed for bad driving. Then most of the Western Cape should be in real trouble.

        Reply

        • Krabby Paddy

          May 18, 2015 at 12:43

          We can’t help it we don’t get a chance to improve our driving by having to dodge potholes … but this thing about blaming nvidia I also like :). I mean we don’t earn as much so get bad FPS in racing games on our cheap graphics cards and then can’t handle real life driving with no lag. It isn’t our fault!

          Reply

          • Captain JJ Browman

            May 18, 2015 at 12:44

            Oh, I like that.
            I blame nVidia for all bad drivers! (I have no idea how this makes sense)

          • HairyEwok

            May 18, 2015 at 12:46

            Soooooo South Africa Taxi Association uses AMD I take it?

          • Captain JJ Browman

            May 18, 2015 at 12:48

            I don’t know. I lost track of the argument somewhere along the line. Now I’m just saying random things with exclamation for effect.

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            May 18, 2015 at 12:49

            ^ needs more exclamation points.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:50

            AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • HairyEwok

            May 18, 2015 at 12:51

            ..!.O_O.!.. Uhhh this right?

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:53

            iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

            Sorry, was upside down for a sec. What were we saying?

          • Captain JJ Browman

            May 18, 2015 at 12:50

            !!!!

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:50

            !!!!!!!!!

          • Captain JJ Browman

            May 18, 2015 at 12:50

            !O_O!

          • Krabby Paddy

            May 18, 2015 at 12:48

            Some people & companies just make it easy for us to blame bad things on them. Again not our fault!

        • Steven De Bondt

          May 23, 2015 at 13:08

          Move the entire earth and its problems, arguments, what not, so you dont have to blame nvidia. for anything. ever.

          Do you think you stand out of the crowd now? I got very sour news for you.

          Reply

    • RinceTriss

      May 18, 2015 at 13:02

      YES!

      Reply

  2. Kromas,powered by windows 10.

    May 18, 2015 at 12:36

    Ladies and Gentleman! This right here is the main reason I will not ever ever buy Nvidia.

    AMD FOR LIFE!

    Reply

    • Captain JJ Browman

      May 18, 2015 at 12:38

      I want to join in just because of your enthusiasm.
      Woohoo!! Burn their houses! (am I doing this right?)

      Reply

      • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

        May 18, 2015 at 12:41

        Almost. More like.

        BURN THEIR HOUSES! RED WEDDING THE CRAP OUT OF THEM!

        “AMD sends their regards”

        Reply

        • Captain JJ Browman

          May 18, 2015 at 12:43

          I immediately thought of Sleeping Dogs when you said red wedding.
          But yes!
          Burn things and stuff and do things and stuff. Bad things!
          #somethingaboutredbeingbetter

          Reply

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 12:44

            Can honestly say I have not even seen the Red wedding I got half way into episode 2 season 1 and just gave up. I prefer my porn to be less convoluted.

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            May 18, 2015 at 12:44

            Please be careful throwing words like that around. You never know what kind of monster you might summon inadvertently.

          • Captain JJ Browman

            May 18, 2015 at 12:44

            Where is Rince anyway?

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            May 18, 2015 at 12:50

            I’m sure someone cares. 😉

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:51

          • RinceTriss

            May 18, 2015 at 13:03

            I know you do!

          • RinceTriss

            May 18, 2015 at 13:02

            You called?! Wait 0_O

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            May 18, 2015 at 13:13

            LOOK WHAT YOU DID JJ!

      • Steven De Bondt

        May 23, 2015 at 13:10

        ^ this right here. Incredible. You had a shot of doing it the mature way, but instead you showed your true colors.

        No, you’re not doing this right. You’re just another drone with alot of upvotes.

        Reply

        • F1Racer

          May 23, 2015 at 15:30

          You accuse me oppressing people without knowing the history behind it and yet most of your posts are trolling at other people.
          Maybe you’re the one who needs to go away. btw, I showed you who I am as you asked. 🙂

          Reply

          • Steven De Bondt

            May 26, 2015 at 13:35

            OK, Just promise me you’ll stop and I will stop aswell. Deal?

            Also which crazy person made you a mod!? What is wrong with this world… God…

          • F1Racer

            May 26, 2015 at 21:26

            I’m not promising you anything. And definitely no deal because there’s nothing to stop. You do what you think you must but it won’t get you very far.
            I don’t tolerate trolls and imbeciles so they get what they ask for from me and I’m well practiced at it.
            You have no idea what went on in that conversation and I don’t think you know me well enough to judge, so back off.
            All the shit that’s wrong with the world and I’m whats wrong with it.
            Should I step down as mod because you want that ? Now who’s being oppresive.

            And there is no god either.

          • Steven De Bondt

            May 28, 2015 at 22:21

            I’m going to ignore the last portion of your comment, because you kinda dosed off there.

            No deal = no deal. It was a test, and you completely failed it; You are what we call an “enabler”. You enable ppl to act the way like I do. Not cool man. This is not supposed to be a moderators job.

            You do realise that most ppl might give you a feeling of “accomplishment”, simply because they stop replying. This is because they simply read the mod tag and back down.

            But that is not the way it should work, only in police states such a thing is reality.

            Now here comes the scary part:

            As you showed here; You would rather start a fire instead of dowsing one; All because of your -incredible- need of pushing your own selfish opinions upon people. Again? Not a moderators job.

            You say you are well practiced, but you have shown little to completly no discipline here at all. One might say the only thing you are practicing here is a need of personal attention, which is also proved by the fact you are still replying “to a troll”

            Yeah, I think we’re done here.

          • F1Racer

            May 29, 2015 at 01:19

            I do like people like you. They just ooze misplaced self-confidence and fill their posts up with weak attacks to bolster their own feeling of self worth. The need to pick apart every point and the criticise me for the same. Remember you’re the one that got my attention by posting to me. I wasn’t seeking any at the time and replies to you don’t count as attention seeking. They are replies. I don’t need or want attention.

            I don’t dose off in my posts. I just post something you either can’t or won’t get into with me so you cover that up by saying you’re going to ‘ignore’ it.

            You may have forgotten but I’m not a moderator here. I’m on no leash now. How pathetic to blame me for the way you feel. Control your emotions a bit better then. What did I do to ‘enable’ you ? Or make you lose control of your emotions, shall we say ?

            There is no feeling of accomplishment if someone doesn’t reply. On the contrary it can sometimes be a disappointment. They don’t need to be afraid of my moderator tag. They can debate me to hell and back if they stay within the forum rules. I’ve always been pro-debate and I don’t shy away from them.

            If they choose not to reply that is their decision. So you can’t put that on me. Very weak.

            It’s not a case of starting a fire. You started the fire. I’m just not afraid to fan the flames. If you can’t take what you dish out then don’t dish it out.

            Which opinions are you talking about that I ‘push’ on people ? And aren’t all opinions, by default, selfish ? I give my opinion as much as anyone else does and my change of changing someone else’s opinion is probably about the same as them changing mine. Nothing new there. You get that all over any forum. Some are stuck in their ways, some listen and are open to others opinions.

            I am, more often than not, the latter. I like others opinions if they’re sensible. You can learn stuff from listening to others especially if they know a little more on the subject than yourself.

            You think you know me but you don’t. But I don’t tolerate fools easily.

            The argument you pushed yourself into was something you have probably no idea about. You just popped up from nowhere and accused me of oppressing people. You don’t know what went on with that guy a week or so earlier (or do you ?). I don’t feel I need to explain it to you because it’s not your concern.

            But I should ask, who the hell do you think you are, saying that to me ?
            I probably would if I cared, but I don’t. If that’s your first post then where did you think it would get you and what did you think it would achieve ? If I was oppressive, the guy I was arguing with would have been banned a week or so before that for his behaviour along with 2 others. But I didn’t, much to another members disappointment. And it turned out to be the right decision because he’s been posting ok lately.
            That, you can call a sense of accomplishment, because I believe I made the right decision.
            So please don’t think you can judge me. You have no idea and your seem to have formed your opinion on a few posts of mine where I had to have a word with someone.

            No discipline ? Really ?? hehe. You have no idea.
            As I said, I’m on no leash here. I could have ripped you apart so badly if I wanted. Or gone down the path of Insults and bad language. But I don’t do that. Instead, I use discipline. I don’t lose my cool and I don’t pretend to think that I know you based on the exchange of a few posts.

            I reply to you out of choice, nothing else. Troll or not. I like replying to trolls anyway. Keeps me practiced.

            We’re only done here if you don’t reply 🙂 Lets see how good your discipline is…

          • Steven De Bondt

            May 29, 2015 at 19:51

            We’re done here.

          • F1Racer

            May 30, 2015 at 01:03

            Thank fuck for that.

    • Hammersteyn

      May 18, 2015 at 12:40

      Damn this only one upvote per comment. Wait, here, have this…
      http://img0.joyreactor.com/pics/post/gif-like-fairy-Harry-Potter-2107632.gif

      Reply

      • Deceased

        May 18, 2015 at 12:57

        Upvoted for those amazing personalities… which get better the more you watch 😛

        Reply

      • HairyEwok

        May 18, 2015 at 13:01

        You know whats funny, the Physics in that gif was made with Nvidia PhysX XD

        Reply

        • Hammersteyn

          May 18, 2015 at 13:42

          ROFL

          Reply

    • HairyEwok

      May 18, 2015 at 12:40

      Look at you being a rebel and such… Soh Cute!

      Reply

    • Admiral Chief

      May 18, 2015 at 12:54

      ^This

      Reply

      • HairyEwok

        May 18, 2015 at 12:57

        Psssst 11:02:46…..

        Reply

  3. Hammersteyn

    May 18, 2015 at 12:39

    GAEMWERKS!

    Reply

    • Captain JJ Browman

      May 18, 2015 at 12:39

      O_o

      Reply

  4. Blood Emperor Trevor

    May 18, 2015 at 12:40

    GameDoesntWorks #amirite!

    Reply

    • Hammersteyn

      May 18, 2015 at 12:40

      Bwahahaha!

      Reply

    • Mark Treloar

      May 18, 2015 at 12:44

      Did you check your system requirements?

      Reply

      • HairyEwok

        May 18, 2015 at 12:44

        I think he should start with switching it off and on again

        Reply

        • Captain JJ Browman

          May 18, 2015 at 12:45

          It’s probably the mods that’s breaking the game.

          Reply

        • Mark Treloar

          May 18, 2015 at 12:45

          No he has to try everything else first then phone technical support. it’s their job to tell him to switch if off and back on again.

          Reply

    • Lord Chaos

      May 18, 2015 at 12:52

      To the Top

      Reply

    • Skoobaz

      May 18, 2015 at 13:30

      ID 10 T error!

      Reply

  5. Witcher Bob

    May 18, 2015 at 12:42

    Shouldn’t the question be why AMD hasn’t developed something similar for their cards? Gamers are increasingly after ma more realistic game especially with certain genres. Nvidia developed something that actively assists the developer and (I assume) saves them a huge amount of time. Why would the developer not use it?

    AMD has effectively given Nvidia a competitive advantage. They need to release a better physics engine to not only get back into the game but to surpass Nvidia. Regardless of the team you support, industry competition is good and results in new innovations.

    Reply

    • HairyEwok

      May 18, 2015 at 12:44

      AMD thought…. We just give the cards and the code will just flow in the right way. You know something like doing your job halfway because you know there’s somebody else more capable that will finish the job.

      Reply

    • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

      May 18, 2015 at 12:45

      Actually AMD has developed quite a few little awesome things like TressFX and Mantle. Problem is that Nvidia pretty much still shuts them down due to market share.

      Reply

      • Pariah

        May 18, 2015 at 12:48

        AMD chose to stop Mantle because of DX12. ie: a better product now exists, and they admitted that. TressFX didn’t kick off. But whose fault is that? Nvidia? No – Nvidia constantly provide better tech and better drivers, so the decision between buying AMD and Nvidia is becoming easier and easier with each generation. Nvidia keeps producing the results, and if they keep doing so, why would either the devs or consumers go elsewhere?

        Reply

        • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

          May 18, 2015 at 12:51

          Would disagree with you on the drivers thing as for tech … yeah sorta when they are not too busy blatantly lying to their customers. As for DX12. AMD had a major role in its development due to AMD=XBONE so yeah they secretly added some mantle stuff in there I think..

          Reply

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:52

            Even with the 970 issue, it still outperforms AMD’s stuff in that price range by quite a margin. The tech is there, there’s no debate.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 12:54

            Yeah the tech is there I agree as for the drivers I completely disagree and as for stuff like TressFX at least AMD drops everything and I mean EVERYTHING as open source while Nvidia pay walls the living crap out of their stuff.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:55

            They are a business, you know? Perhaps AMD should learn something from Nvidia – maybe then they’d be successful and make better stuff?

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:00

            Sanral is also a business as is Eskom. Point is that AMD is really trying to works with everyone and Nvidia are so closed off that I fear for the day AMD pulls out and we are left at their mercy.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:03

            Let’s stick to using successful business as an example, shall we? Eskom and Sanral are not. Nvidia is focused on providing the best version of their product. Eskom is focused on paying the highest salary to their execs with supplying as little of their product as possible…

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:05

            Nvidia is focused on making the most money and shunting competitors. That is bad business practice.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:07

            AMD are killing themselves here, I’m afraid. besides the few die-hard fans (on both sides), people buy the best product for their money. A few generations ago AMD actually had a large part of the market – when their cards were more bang for your buck than Nvidia’s were. Then Nvidia stepped up, and AMD are yet to answer.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:10

            Hoping the R3 series steps up. I am actually interested to see if they made this new memory architecture publicly available. Once again it is a good thing that they do it but it will hurt them in the long run.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:12

            Well the thing, as I said above, about their new range is that the new tech is limited to only their top of the range card. That is what’s going to hurt them. It means that the average consumer will only see the benefit in the R4 series of cards. Meanwhile Nvidia have plenty time to dissect it on the top of the line card and find an answer to the tech in their own stuff.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:20

            This new architecture is AMD specific and the way it is built is to implement both sides of the circuit board to get memory as close as possible to the GPU. Unless it is public domain Nvidia can’t do anything to that effect unless they licence it out from AMD and that would be funny to see.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:24

            I didn’t say copy their tech, I said “find an answer to their tech” . And believe me, Nvidia will find an answer.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:32

            I do hope that it will only be in a year or two’s time so AMD can win a bit of market share back.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:49

            That will be best for everyone. But it’s not up to Nvidia to stop innovating or creating tools that make a dev’s life easier – it’s up to AMD to step up and do the same, but better or at the same level.

            The entire blame for AMD’s position wrests with AMD. Nvidia need to keep pushing the bar, because that’s better for everyone. If Nvidia start gimping their stuff to let AMD keep up, then everyone loses.

            And if they make their stuff open source and allow everyone to mess with it – it’ll make devs lives harder, and make the entire suite pointless. That’ll be like giving Sony or MS shit for not allowing you to put your own graphics card in a console. There’s a point to keeping things uniform and closed.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 14:01

            Look we can argue in circles about this but Nvidia has been called out for bad business practice multiple times. AMD on the other hand has not. I will gladly switch over to Nvidia the day the stop with their crap and at the very least say sorry for everything they have done wrong including the great GPU burn of 2010 and 2013 (that driver thing I talked about … TWICE and no apologies ever also my last Nvidia card I bought)

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 14:01

            Look we can argue in circles about this but Nvidia has been called out for bad business practice multiple times. AMD on the other hand has not. I will gladly switch over to Nvidia the day the stop with their crap and at the very least say sorry for everything they have done wrong including the great GPU burn of 2010 and 2013 (that driver thing I talked about … TWICE and no apologies ever also my last Nvidia card I bought)

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 14:42

            So you’re just a sour customer. I understand why logic has failed, and it makes sense now. And again, I’m not talking about Nvidia’s business practices. I’m talking about their products – the only reason Nvidia HAS business practices of any kind. No product, no business. Their product IS their business. And they look after it well – as any good company should.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 14:57

            No no no you misunderstand me entirely. I used to be like you.Wanting the best sparing no expense. I always heard about how Nvidia forced manufacturers to use their chips or else and how their drivers screwed up systems badly in the past. I did not care at all. Then when my card burned out and Nvidia blamed me for using their drivers I thought to myself. “As an Nvidia user I am to blame for ignoring how bad they were just because I wanted the best performance.” So me being a sour customer is wrong. Me being someone who stands up and tries to make sure that Nvidia does not rule them all by buying AMD is right. Call me a fanboy or whatever but Nvidia being shady and being in court all the damn time does not only happen in the GPU market. Being blind to what they are doing is going to damage the gaming industry if this continues just mark my words cause I will be back to say “I told you so” in a few years time.

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 12:56

            The other thing is that if you do something with open source drivers, no one takes accountability, with the nVidia package, they create and you are paying for it, so they don’t have a choice other than to deliver the best product on the market…

          • Mark Treloar

            May 18, 2015 at 12:54

            I suppose it’s also Intel’s fault AMD has not released any new CPU’s as yet?

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 12:54

            This^^ is unfortunately speculation, the biggest issue is that when making a market decision as big as developing your own version of Direct X 12, without doing the research towards physics engines etc. you’ll be shooting yourself in the foot, like they’ve done multiple times already… I’m sad to say this but AMD has been stuffing up this last while, but I hope they can still recover….

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 12:58

            I know it is speculation but then again if MS tells you to assist getting DX12 streamlined for XBONE I would sure as hell have made sure it gets some love for my other products. Considering Source 2.0 will have its own physics package we might see a change up there.

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:02

            True! I really hope that AMD gets their chance to perform, I mean I want them to succeed, but they have been waaaaayyyy too busy doing the whole console graphics cards things and not spending time with their PC supporters and for that I cannot forgive them, considering that they’re scooping from the consoles and not expanding their growth…it’s disgusting really….

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:04

            R3 series starting with the R9390x will make a huge difference I personally believe.

            TitanX = 288.4 MB/s

            R9390X = 1TB/s (speculated)

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:05

            Well considering the 390x is the only thing working on new tech, you’ll begin to see where the issue lies. Every new gen, Nvidia release their range on the new tech – removing bits as they go down the price range.

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:07

            Well even with a 1TB/s rate, it won’t help much if it’s hampered by a few bottlenecks….

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:08

            True but PCI-E 3.0(our current standard) = 1TB/s. The cards currently are the bottleneck.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:09

            CPU and the bridge between it all, actually. Your motherboard is an integral part of the pipeline. Never forget that.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:16

            Bus speeds have gone over TB/s transfers ages ago.

            Current major bottlenecks.

            Ram : Gaming memmory helps but DDR4 should assist quite nicely
            HDD : Replace with SDD and boom issue reduced.
            GPU: R3 series done and dusted.

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:14

            Uhm…. The line up of bottlenecks surpass the allowed length of characters in a single Disqus post really…. there is a lot of things to keep in mind with regards to PCs that could cause said bottlenecks, but I’ll not get too technical, what I am trying to say though, in essence, is that AMD need to recover from this, the only way that they’ll be able to is to man up and take charge, but it’s not happening, sadly…

          • Mark Treloar

            May 19, 2015 at 07:00

            If you are talking about bandwith? PCI express 3.0 tops out at 32gb/sec on an x16 lane. Having faster memory is good but if the rest of the tech cant support it its overkill.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 19, 2015 at 08:46

            I believe you are wrong …. but so am I coincidentally enough.
            It should be 128GB/s on a 16 bus lane. I just added an extra zero. 😛

      • Blood Emperor Trevor

        May 18, 2015 at 12:48

        AMD Freesync vs Nvidia G-sync. Freesync is open source – ie free vs G-sync proprietary – ie costs a lot. Freesync gets adopted as standard, Nvidia throws their toys. lol. Fuck Nvidia. They’re the EA of hardware.

        Reply

      • Witcher Bob

        May 18, 2015 at 13:21

        Nvidia only currently holds the market share because gamers have the perception that its better than AMD. In certain respects Nvidia cards are better while in others AMD solidly outperforms Nvidia. I just feel AMD needs to do more and possible deliver more to change that perception.

        Reply

        • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

          May 18, 2015 at 13:23

          The problem is for AMD to do this they need to be just as underhanded as Nvidia are. It would sour my perspective as the scrappy underdog that only true gamers believe in. 🙂

          Reply

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:25

            “true gamers” I believe in great looking, great games. And Nvidia provide that for me. So, sorry, your fan boy-ism is not true. 😛

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:31

            That’s like saying Eskom is amazing, because where else will you get power.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:33

            Hahahahaha.

          • Admiral Chief

            May 18, 2015 at 13:33

            xD
            Spot on

          • Witcher Bob

            May 18, 2015 at 13:33

            Not really since we don’t have an alternative to Eskom. AMD make solid cards that are able to compete with the current best in the market. I just think they need to tweak a few things or come up with some extras to place them back on top.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:34

            You realise you’re basically saying AMD don’t exist, right? cc @Admiral Chief:disqus

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:35

            Solar. Better, cleaner, cheaper

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:36

            Hahahahahaha … you sir are on the ball today.

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:35

            Also, no. Nvidia provide results that I can see. Eskom provide nothing but excuses.

            And I’m sick of fanboys now. Fuck off the lot of you and get some logic.

          • Blood Emperor Trevor

            May 18, 2015 at 13:36

            “You’re all fanboys!” …says the fanboy bwhahahahahaha

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:45

            If AMD were better, they’d be receiving my praises. If you’d read my posts, you’d know that I’ve already praised their work a few years ago – when they were better.

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:36

            Lol. Not so much a fanboi, I’ve just personally seen better results with AMD, like you’ve experienced with Nvidia. But that’s in my personal capacity.

          • Andrew Agustin

            June 6, 2015 at 22:14

            You say youre sick of fanboys yet youre a fanboy yourself LOL

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:29

            The comment that I’ll leave you with is that if nVidia can charge for their services, AMD should too, because without involving yourself in other projects, you won’t get anywhere, them going open source was one of their biggest errors so far, and nVidia knew that MS was working DX12, but that’s how you do business, sometimes, as little as you want to, you have to be an asshole…

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:30

            AMD had another project. They are years ahead in the APU business.

          • Witcher Bob

            May 18, 2015 at 13:32

            What makes you so sure they aren’t underhanded? AMD/ATI held the top spot many years ago. But business is business. Customer satisfaction is all that counts.

          • Kromas,powered by windows 10.

            May 18, 2015 at 13:34

            Keeping everything open and even helping out indie devs feels less underhanded than just about everything Nvidia is doing.

    • Ottokie

      May 18, 2015 at 13:04

      I do agree with “why don’t they create something similar” . But then you gotta keep in mind these AMD’s are already running in the red and with physics calculations its gonna turn into a super nova in that little cost effective PC case…

      Reply

      • Lord Chaos

        May 18, 2015 at 13:08

        Electricity bill of R344 last month…

        *Just saying

        Reply

        • Ottokie

          May 18, 2015 at 13:09

          If SA banned AMD, we would not have load shedding right now…

          Reply

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:09

            I have a full AMD rig including two HD7970x2’s…

          • Admiral Chief

            May 18, 2015 at 13:49

            O_O

      • Witcher Bob

        May 18, 2015 at 13:18

        Maybe, it’ll depend on the software and the load it puts on the GPU. Then again AMD could also develop improved cooling systems. There are many things they could do depending on time and money.

        I prefer Nvidia at the moment (I’ve supported both Nvidia and AMD in the past) but I don’t want to see AMD fold because they can’t sell enough units.

        Reply

        • Ottokie

          May 18, 2015 at 13:24

          Also if AMD folds Nvidia is gonna have monopoly and that means inflated prices. So I do appreciate the competition they raise against Nvidia.

          Reply

  6. Greylingad[CNFRMD]

    May 18, 2015 at 12:50

    One of the things I encountered was an article specifically about Project CARS having issues with AMD cards… The worst part about the whole article is that the developer had daily correspondence with the nVidia team, whereas AMD was almost completely absent, so where do you draw the line, in a certain way the dev actually said that he can’t believe that AMD didn’t respond because they tried their best to get hold of them, yet they didn’t seem to care. So in my opinion, if AMD doesn’t sharpen up their game, grow a set of cast iron testes, they’ll never be able to make headway, they really have to grow up and move past the “Oh, it’s so unfair that nVidia is ahead because their software is easier to use… Blah di Fooking Blah” If they don’t own up and do something about it they’ll soon be turning in their GPU trade card…

    Reply

    • HairyEwok

      May 18, 2015 at 12:56

      I like your Blah di Fooking Blah… Made me go huzzah for you!

      Reply

      • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

        May 18, 2015 at 12:56

        Hehehe, I try….

        Reply

  7. Lord Chaos

    May 18, 2015 at 12:51

    Meh, Nvidia can keep their crap, Star Citizen is designed with AMD in mind.

    Clearly the best devs know what to work on. 😛

    Reply

    • Pariah

      May 18, 2015 at 12:53

      IF Star Citizen ever gets released. I mean, it’s nice in theory, but that’s all it is right now. A whole ton of screenshots, 2 mini games, and a truck load of promises.

      Reply

      • Lord Chaos

        May 18, 2015 at 12:54

        With what they have released so far… Still better than 99% of games currently being released on PC

        Reply

      • HairyEwok

        May 18, 2015 at 12:54

        Expected release time….. When it’s done XD

        Reply

        • Pariah

          May 18, 2015 at 12:54

          Well, it worked for Duke Nukem Forever, didn’t it? 😀

          Reply

          • HairyEwok

            May 18, 2015 at 12:55

            And look where that game ended up….

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 12:56

            Works well for Blizzard

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 12:59

            Blizzard actually deliver though.

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:00

            Still staying by the fact that what little they have delivered already > most day 1 games.

            *Looks at CoD

          • Pariah

            May 18, 2015 at 13:01

            I’ve been playing Blizzard games since Warcraft 1, and am still yet to be disappointed. Even day 1.

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:02

            And they are the only exception.

            I love GTA V, but 5GB patch? And let’s not even talk about MKX. So, so far Robert has done good in my books

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:04

            I have to say though, the day one patch on GTA V is a bit big, but after that, you have a few patches ranging from 350 to about 450 MB in size….

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:06

            True, but then there was also the problem of not being able to finish the DL and having it start all over if your PC name had a SPACE in it… O_o

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:08

            Please, I beg of you not to tell me that this happened to you….Please tell me so….

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:08

            It did. 🙁

          • Greylingad[CNFRMD]

            May 18, 2015 at 13:10

            Ag nee… I’m sorry man, that sucks…

          • Lord Chaos

            May 18, 2015 at 13:10

            At least they fixed it… after a week

  8. Ottokie

    May 18, 2015 at 13:06

  9. The Sten

    May 18, 2015 at 13:37

    Nvidia reading all those user comments.

    Reply

  10. Ranting Raptor

    May 18, 2015 at 18:12

  11. Truan Frames

    May 18, 2015 at 18:29

    My biggest issue here is this “Since the game uses GameWorks, then the ball is in Nvidia’s court to optimize the code so that AMD cards can run it properly. Or wait for AMD to work around GameWorks within their drivers. Nvidia is banking on taking months to get right because of the code obfuscation in the GameWorks libraries as this is their new strategy to get more customers.”, how in the hell do they reach that conclusion, why would I as a company optimise stuff for my competitors, any why would my competitors expect that, its just not business sense to do so, from what i have read, and i would happily be corrected on, about half these projects that AMD say that Nvidia are gimping them on is that Nvidia help the developers any way they can to get it to run better, while AMD isn’t heard from at all, and then they play the card of being deliberately sabotaged by the competition… Just seems like poor business planning trying to be hidden under excuses.

    Reply

  12. Freddie Winter

    May 18, 2015 at 21:19

    ??????–lazygamer–Best way,google yahoo,Facebook,twitter,

    Read Full Article

    ???????Get More Info ? See More Here’s

    Reply

  13. Ranting Raptor

    May 19, 2015 at 06:52

    Ok wait. So TressFX performing better on AMD hardware is ok and cool and shows what AMD is capable of… Do the same with nVidia and it’s suddenly bad?

    These places are businesses. They need to make money. They do so by offering a product that people would hopefully want.

    The developers are the ones using the GameWorks tech. nVidia isn’t forcing anyone. To blame nVidia for providing tools that devs freely chose to use is as absurd as it is lauding AMD for TressFX which only performs well on AMD tech.

    Reply

  14. Pansyfaust

    May 19, 2015 at 14:31

    FYI, Project Cars is not using anything from GameWorks, it’s purely an AMD driver issue and has nothing to do with Nvidia- http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/243705/Project_CARS_On_AMD_GPUs__Clarification.php

    Reply

  15. Andrew Agustin

    June 6, 2015 at 22:17

    Look the main problem is monopoly…if AMD dies out then Nvidia can create one…we honestly need another graphics card and cpu manufacturer >_<

    Reply

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