AMD’s Mantle, like the impending DirectX 12 is meant to give game developers lower-level access to hardware, allowing them to extract more performance out of less hardware. AMD’s opened the API up, saying anybody who wants to use it could do so. Nvidia’s been a little quiet about Mantle, never saying whether they’d support it or not. They’ve now broken the silence – saying there’s really no point in supporting Mantle.
Speaking on On MaximumPCMagazine’s latest podcast, Nvidia has finally taken a hard stance, with Nvidia Engineer Tom Petersen and Senior Director of Engineering Rev Lebaradian saying that not only will they not be supporting it, but they see no reason to.
“We don’t know much about Mantle, we are not part of Mantle. And clearly if they see value there they should go for it,” Peterson said. “And if they can convince game developers to go for it, go for it. It’s not an Nvidia thing. The key thing is to develop great technologies that deliver benefits to gamers. Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there.”
Lebaradian added that that ‘if you go look at the numbers, compare our DX drivers today to Mantle games, I don’t think you’re going to notice any big improvement‘ to which Tom added ‘in configurations that matter‘.
“It’s possible to pull performance out of DirectX, we’re approving that, and so you can argue that maybe it’s not a good idea to put extra effort into yet another API that does the same thing essentially. Feature wise there is nothing more.”
Essentially, while there may be some improvement and benefit to using Mantle, that benefit is wholly offset by the fact that DirectX 12 does the same thing, and will have wider support – making Mantle obsolete and unnecessary.
“DX12 is coming and a lot of the features, the benefits of having a lower level API (the extra calls and stuff), it’s going to be in DX12.”
I’m still waiting to see real benefits from Mantle. The games that have supported it have in some cases looked worse as a trade-off for the slightly better performance. Unfortunately for AMD, I think DX12 will leave Mantle dead in the water.
You can watch the whole podcast here, even if it is filled with far too much Nvidia evangelism.
Last Updated: July 29, 2014
Alien Emperor Trevor
July 29, 2014 at 14:39
Good job guys, first state ignorance, then talk about it.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
July 29, 2014 at 14:44
http://images.lazygamer.net/2013/12/sourestgrapesofall.jpg
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:01
AMD were also ignorant enough to acknowledge DX so much that the CEO said there’ll be no DX12.
“Over and over again a new DirectX has refreshed the industry; new graphics cards need more powerful processors and more RAM. But there will be no DirectX 12. That’s it. To our knowledge there are no plans for DirectX 12 If someone wants to correct me – wonderful. But now we really need excellent games like Crysis or Bioshock Infinite 3, on the one hand to encourage the industry and also to reward our buyers.”
Alien Emperor Trevor
July 29, 2014 at 15:07
Well, I’m guessing AMD asked MS quite a few times about DX12 before starting work on Mantle, otherwise what would be the point of it. If they didn’t, well… then they’re silly nanas.
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:10
There’s at least 8-12 games coming with Mantle support and remember that Sony and MS are using Mantle on their gaming consoles, so I’m guessing we will continue to see more of Mantle support but only on AMD cards.
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:19
But what will the performance be like? That’s the real issue here. If mantle gives a significant boost and DX12 comes out and does the same thing I don’t see Mantle taking off.
If DX 12 comes out and can only provide boosts to high end cards then mantle may very well become a thing because it has proven that a mid range machine can see vast improvements.
nVidia sneaked in that little comment of “in configurations that matter”. Maybe they are talking of high end hardware here. If DX12 is only good enough to boost only high-end then I say BAH and will move to AMD and mantle because I want my performance boost on exisiting hardware from low end all the way to high end.
Making sense?
Rags
July 29, 2014 at 15:29
The configurations which makes sense is reference to the fact that the only largest benefit to mantle is where there is a strong cpu bottleneck. Like an AMD cpu 😛
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:35
But that’s the point 🙂 You make a joke but the point is the important part. To me it sounds like nVidia is talking about high end configs. nVidia is all about the strongest cards and best performance etc. When nVidia says configs that matter I bet they are talking about high end cards only. So they are only aiming for benefits on high end systems? They enforce this kind of mentality with their shield streaming which requires quite beefy hardware whereas Steam only requires an OK CPU.
Now if AMD’s mantle can grant good boosts to performance on bottlenecked systems and mid range systems (We have seen over and over the best performance boosts are on mid-range hardware with Mantle) and nVidia with DX12 can only do it on high end hardware then I think that people may start shifting to mantle as the biggest part of the market is the low – mid range people.
Sorry, my sentence structure is all messed up today but I’ve been trying to figure out company fixed assets all day and it’s given me the dumbs.
Rags
July 29, 2014 at 15:46
Hehe 😀
Yeah well I think nVidia has more of a wait and see approach. Pushing their own low level API into the market is just going to kill it for developers. John Carmack, Tim Sweeney etc are all in favour of Nvidia not doing it. So I hope DX 12 does away with those bottlenecks too so the low-mid range guys have more gpu options. But for me with an i7 mantel is useless 😛
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:05
Read before you post such a rubbish.
Regardless what CPU you have DX 11 cannot use all cores effectively and there is draw calls limitation. If you think that is fine to have CPU limited by 1core performance than why the hell do you have 4core CPU?
So even you will benefit and hugely in time. But you can use DX11 version when DX12 games come out during 2016! Im sure it will run fine under DX11. At the end of a day NVidia said low level API brings no benefit^^
John Carmack said so many bullshit over the years and he is more spokesman of nvidia than anything else today anyway. Also MANTLE will be open, have you ever see any tech from NVidia to be open? Their GameWorks is distributed in DLLs.
Rags
August 29, 2014 at 14:35
What blasphemy is this?
Alan Jones
July 29, 2014 at 15:47
I have a R9 290 and I have seen large performance gains with mantel in Thief. I find it does not have much effect on max frame rate but greatly effects min frame rate. In Thief I got a two time speed up in min frame rate which is what you notes the most.
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:49
And we will have to wait and see what DX12 can do. If DX 12 does the same then mantle becomes pointless. So it’s a waiting game now. Let’s see if nVidia are right about how good DX12’s low level access will be
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:06
When DX12 comes out AMD will already have MANTLE 2.0 with HSA support and other tech.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 05:46
AMD FX has better price / performance than intel i core. What mantle does is let use CPU all the cores effectively as there is no way to do that under DX, which brings benefit to all multi-core CPU!!! Which is something we have been missing on PC for almost a decade!!!
Intel is only better in single-thread applications and after 8 years of multi-core CPU it is exactly nothing they could be proud about.
AMD FX 8core is actually faster than i7 4core, because MANTLE benefits much more from no. of cores than IPC as every multithreaded application should. DX12 does the same thing, so this it great news for AMD CPU users.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 05:54
OMG, AMD wasn’t ignorant but you’re just being stupid. DX12 did not exist at that time and there WERE NOT any plans to make new DX. Not just AMD but microsoft representatives said that themselves!
Microsoft never give a shit about PC gaming and low level api for their xbox they have for almost a decade!
Only reason why DX12 is being developed is MANTLE! Only reason why AZDO and OpenGL NEXT is being developed is MANTLE. Only reason why METAL is being developed is MANTLE.
MANTLE just open a discussion about low layers optimization and this is result of that and hopefully soon console like effectivity.
PS4 has 100W TDP and PC like graphic with AMD CPU (architecture used in tablets) that alone has 20W TDP.
Lardus-Resident Perve
July 29, 2014 at 14:39
NVidia FTW! Just kidding – I have no opinion on this!
Alien Emperor Trevor
July 29, 2014 at 14:39
Good job guys, first state ignorance, then talk about it.
Exalted Overlord Geoffrey Tim
July 29, 2014 at 14:44
http://images.lazygamer.net/2013/12/sourestgrapesofall.jpg
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:01
AMD were also ignorant enough to acknowledge DX so much that the CEO said there’ll be no DX12.
“Over and over again a new DirectX has refreshed the industry; new graphics cards need more powerful processors and more RAM. But there will be no DirectX 12. That’s it. To our knowledge there are no plans for DirectX 12 If someone wants to correct me – wonderful. But now we really need excellent games like Crysis or Bioshock Infinite 3, on the one hand to encourage the industry and also to reward our buyers.”
Alien Emperor Trevor
July 29, 2014 at 15:07
Well, I’m guessing AMD asked MS quite a few times about DX12 before starting work on Mantle, otherwise what would be the point of it. If they didn’t, well… then they’re silly nanas.
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:10
There’s at least 8-12 games coming with Mantle support and remember that Sony and MS are using Mantle on their gaming consoles, so I’m guessing we will continue to see more of Mantle support but only on AMD cards.
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:19
But what will the performance be like? That’s the real issue here. If mantle gives a significant boost and DX12 comes out and does the same thing I don’t see Mantle taking off.
If DX 12 comes out and can only provide boosts to high end cards then mantle may very well become a thing because it has proven that a mid range machine can see vast improvements.
nVidia sneaked in that little comment of “in configurations that matter”. Maybe they are talking of high end hardware here. If DX12 is only good enough to boost only high-end then I say BAH and will move to AMD and mantle because I want my performance boost on exisiting hardware from low end all the way to high end.
Making sense?
Rags
July 29, 2014 at 15:29
The configurations which makes sense is reference to the fact that the only largest benefit to mantle is where there is a strong cpu bottleneck. Like an AMD cpu 😛
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:35
But that’s the point 🙂 You make a joke but the point is the important part. To me it sounds like nVidia is talking about high end configs. nVidia is all about the strongest cards and best performance etc. When nVidia says configs that matter I bet they are talking about high end cards only. So they are only aiming for benefits on high end systems? They enforce this kind of mentality with their shield streaming which requires quite beefy hardware whereas Steam only requires an OK CPU.
Now if AMD’s mantle can grant good boosts to performance on bottlenecked systems and mid range systems (We have seen over and over the best performance boosts are on mid-range hardware with Mantle) and nVidia with DX12 can only do it on high end hardware then I think that people may start shifting to mantle as the biggest part of the market is the low – mid range people.
Sorry, my sentence structure is all messed up today but I’ve been trying to figure out company fixed assets all day and it’s given me the dumbs.
Rags
July 29, 2014 at 15:46
Hehe 😀
Yeah well I think nVidia has more of a wait and see approach. Pushing their own low level API into the market is just going to kill it for developers. John Carmack, Tim Sweeney etc are all in favour of Nvidia not doing it. So I hope DX 12 does away with those bottlenecks too so the low-mid range guys have more gpu options. But for me with an i7 mantel is useless 😛
Alan Jones
July 29, 2014 at 15:47
I have a R9 290 and I have seen large performance gains with mantel in Thief. I find it does not have much effect on max frame rate but greatly effects min frame rate. In Thief I got a two time speed up in min frame rate which is what you notes the most.
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:49
And we will have to wait and see what DX12 can do. If DX 12 does the same then mantle becomes pointless. So it’s a waiting game now. Let’s see if nVidia are right about how good DX12’s low level access will be
Lardus-Resident Perve
July 29, 2014 at 14:39
NVidia FTW! Just kidding – I have no opinion on this!
UltimateNinjaPandaDudeGuy
July 29, 2014 at 14:44
They really should have waited for the new Direct X and then put real effort into a new system. Too late now and I am glad I went with Nvidia.
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:04
DirectX 12 will be backwards compatible to older gen cards so no sweat.
UltimateNinjaPandaDudeGuy
July 29, 2014 at 15:10
Glad to hear that. Dumped a ton of money into my current card. Was hoping it would show some life into DX12 too.
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:48
I went midrange with mine. Looking to upgrade in a years time again depending.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:10
DX12 will be windows 9 only^^ so no sweat..
MANTLE on the other hand is Vista+
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:09
I love how everyone supports DX regardless how much DX sux. DX12 is only because AMD bring MANTLE. Do you really think that developers did not ask microsoft about low level (console like) API? Microsoft does not care about PC, never did. Only because of mantle / steamOS, they afraid they might loose a bit from their monopoly, immediately after they gain confidence they stop. that is what monopoly does.
UltimateNinjaPandaDudeGuy
July 29, 2014 at 14:44
They really should have waited for the new Direct X and then put real effort into a new system. Too late now and I am glad I went with Nvidia.
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:04
DirectX 12 will be backwards compatible to older gen cards so no sweat.
UltimateNinjaPandaDudeGuy
July 29, 2014 at 15:10
Glad to hear that. Dumped a ton of money into my current card. Was hoping it would show some life into DX12 too.
FoxOneZA
July 29, 2014 at 15:48
I went midrange with mine. Looking to upgrade in a years time again depending.
Ryanza
July 29, 2014 at 14:56
For the last few years it’s seems that AMD have been making the fastest GPU on the market. So with GameWorks, it seems Nvidia is not in that market to get the fastest GPU on the market.
Nvidia is paying developers big money for them to use GameWorks. GameWorks is a DLL that does something, that the developers don’t get access to, can’t at look and optimize the code. The DLL’s are setup to have AMD cards preform worse than Nvidia cards. AMD and developers don’t get access to those codes.
I really hope that CD Projekt Red are not going to fuck over the AMD guys with the use of GameWorks in The Witcher 3.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:15
they’ve done overtessellation for year but DLL distribution is new. AMD has source code/documentation/sample for all their tech within RadeonSDK downloadable for everyone.
That is the reason why only company that NVidia pay use GameWorks, unlike AMD MANTLE that is used by 75 developer team ATM and AMD did not pay anyone.
Ryanza
July 29, 2014 at 14:56
For the last few years it’s seems that AMD have been making the fastest GPU on the market. So with GameWorks, it seems Nvidia is not in that market to get the fastest GPU on the market.
Nvidia is paying developers big money for them to use GameWorks. GameWorks is a DLL that does something, that the developers don’t get access to, can’t at look and optimize the code. The DLL’s are setup to have AMD cards preform worse than Nvidia cards. AMD and developers don’t get access to those codes.
I really hope that CD Projekt Red are not going to fuck over the AMD guys with the use of GameWorks in The Witcher 3.
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:13
Ok while I don;t think nVidia should shrug off the benefits of mantle just yet I do kind of agree.
IF Dx12 comes out and does the same as Mantle, then mantle fails. Right there on the spot. Not because DX is better but because it’s widely used by the industry and is what people are used to.
DX is so integrated in the gaming scene that it would be hard for game devs to move away to something else.
Now, if DX12 comes out and can’t do the same performance boosts (ie: without needing even bigger cards) then devs may start looking at mantle.
I’m pretty sure everyone is waiting for DX12 before they make a choice on whether to go the mantle route or DX12 and let’s be honest here. Devs will go where it looks best with the best performance on a wide range of hardware. That’s where the kicker will come in
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:24
1. MANTLE is cross-platform vs DX12 is not
2. MANTLE is Vista+ vs DX12 Win9 only (very likely since microsoft said Win8 won’t receive any more new features)
3. MANTLE has fast developement, any new feature inside HW can be activated in API moment that HW become available. (HSA, UAV Ordering (Unordered Access View Ordering)
4.MANTLE is faster as it is desktop API only vs DX 12 will have to support variety of HW and systems Windows Mobile – Windows for Desktop – XBOX
Sir Rants A Lot Llew
July 29, 2014 at 15:13
Ok while I don;t think nVidia should shrug off the benefits of mantle just yet I do kind of agree.
IF Dx12 comes out and does the same as Mantle, then mantle fails. Right there on the spot. Not because DX is better but because it’s widely used by the industry and is what people are used to.
DX is so integrated in the gaming scene that it would be hard for game devs to move away to something else.
Now, if DX12 comes out and can’t do the same performance boosts (ie: without needing even bigger cards) then devs may start looking at mantle.
I’m pretty sure everyone is waiting for DX12 before they make a choice on whether to go the mantle route or DX12 and let’s be honest here. Devs will go where it looks best with the best performance on a wide range of hardware. That’s where the kicker will come in
Johan Fourie
July 29, 2014 at 15:18
“We don’t know much about Mantle” “Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there.” – Ignorant shit.
Also, if it wasn’t for AMD bringing an API upfront with low-level hardware access, we probably wouldn’t have gotten it with DX12.
Man, fuck nVidia and their greedy, corporate shite.
ZubSaber
July 29, 2014 at 15:44
I agree that Nvidia are greedy as hell, everybody knows the price of a Titan is ludicrous.
Those buggers use every trick in the book to get ahead of any competitor(s).
But you know what? They’re at the top of their game and it’s showing, with the corporate cold war that’s flaring up and both sides of the master race hearing this call-to-arms.
You know what I support?
Winning. Don’t care who’s doing it.
Johan Fourie
July 29, 2014 at 15:49
Winning by buying out developers with bullshit like gameworks and exclusive titles (Watch Poop… I mean Watch Dogs Poop). In the end you pay a lot more for the little bang your’re getting compared to competing manufacturers. That’s not winning for the consumer, that’s winning for the corporate slime-bag.
ZubSaber
July 29, 2014 at 16:04
You’re only using the negative side. Black Flag is a good example of when this kind of exclusivity works (for Nvidia). I’m not saying there haven’t been mistakes like Watch Poops (where the modding community came to the rescue, as it has many times before), but in the real world businesses will always behave like this.
.
People buy Nvidia ‘cos they “sense” it’s the brand more suited to them, as do AMD users. It’s just a matter of preference.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:32
It also shatters community, prolong developement and all proprietary tech will never be part of gameplay. So you do not win, it is lost for everyone.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:28
But to be honest, you would have to be super stupid to buy it, right?
I support PC as a standard based open platform, because only confident, adult company can do that, resp will cheat and use their proprietary tech and other unfair practices. Problem is that proprietary tech kills PC as a gaming platform.
Johan Fourie
July 29, 2014 at 15:18
“We don’t know much about Mantle” “Now in the case of Mantle it’s not so clear to me that there is a lot of obvious benefits there.” – Ignorant shit.
Also, if it wasn’t for AMD bringing an API upfront with low-level hardware access, we probably wouldn’t have gotten it with DX12.
Man, fuck nVidia and their greedy, corporate shite.
ZubSaber
July 29, 2014 at 15:44
I agree that Nvidia are greedy as hell, everybody knows the price of a Titan is ludicrous.
Those buggers use every trick in the book to get ahead of any competitor(s).
But you know what? They’re at the top of their game and it’s showing, with the corporate cold war that’s flaring up and both sides of the master race hearing this call-to-arms.
You know what I support?
Winning. Don’t care who’s doing it.
Johan Fourie
July 29, 2014 at 15:49
Winning by buying out developers with bullshit like gameworks and exclusive titles (Watch Poop… I mean Watch Dogs Poop). In the end you pay a lot more for the little bang your’re getting compared to competing manufacturers. That’s not winning for the consumer, that’s winning for the corporate slime-bag.
ZubSaber
July 29, 2014 at 16:04
You’re only using the negative side. Black Flag is a good example of when this kind of exclusivity works (for Nvidia). I’m not saying there haven’t been mistakes like Watch Poops (where the modding community came to the rescue, as it has many times before), but in the real world businesses will always behave like this.
.
People buy Nvidia ‘cos they “sense” it’s the brand more suited to them, as do AMD users. It’s just a matter of preference.
yourma2000
July 29, 2014 at 16:03
Nvidia calls Mantle useless yet there’s an article on their blog titled “DirectX 12: A Major Stride for Gaming” yet DX12 is a blatant copy of Mantle. The only reason they said mantle offers no benefits is because it’s an AMD technology and they don’t won’t to give AMD any credit for throwing a good swing for PC gamers, nvidia don’t half make themselves look stupid.
yourma2000
July 29, 2014 at 16:03
Nvidia calls Mantle useless yet there’s an article on their blog titled “DirectX 12: A Major Stride for Gaming” yet DX12 is a blatant copy of Mantle. The only reason they said mantle offers no benefits is because it’s an AMD technology and they don’t won’t to give AMD any credit for throwing a good swing for PC gamers, nvidia don’t half make themselves look stupid.
oomjan
July 29, 2014 at 16:52
I was always with Nvidia but lately with the 700 series being so expensive and getting my r9 280x crossfire for about the same price as 1x 780 about October last year. I’m happy with it and sure mantle does help. I think Nvidia is a bunch of greedy bastards cause they know people will buy it anyway. i mean check a 760GTX costs about R3300=R3500 where you can get a r9 280 for just a little bit more and it’s clearly better. Check Wootware and their amazing prices on the powercolor cards.
I can play pretty much any game max or near max on my 2560×1440@96Hz monitor
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:36
Actually 1500% when overhead, means with for DX11 FPS drops to 3FPS but with mantle never goes under 50FPS. So less stutter, much more stable framerate and overall better experience.
oomjan
July 29, 2014 at 16:52
I was always with Nvidia but lately with the 700 series being so expensive and getting my r9 280x crossfire for about the same price as 1x 780 about October last year. I’m happy with it and sure mantle does help. I think Nvidia is a bunch of greedy bastards cause they know people will buy it anyway. i mean check a 760GTX costs about R3300=R3500 where you can get a r9 280 for just a little bit more and it’s clearly better. Check Wootware and their amazing prices on the powercolor cards.
I can play pretty much any game max or near max on my 2560×1440@96Hz monitor
Athenasius
July 29, 2014 at 23:50
Most people are forgetting that the majority of current Mantle games are being made with limited numbers of draw calls as the games were made within the limits of directx, although performance is still improved overall in most circumstances with more regular frame times making the games smoother and higher performance on lower end processors.
Only once games start taking advantage of higher numbers of draw calls by making far more dynamic and unique environments, will the advantages be seen properly over directx.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:38
Valid point, they aim 100 000 draw calls, which is 10 times more (stuff on screen) than what best games today can deliver, 20 times more what average game can.
But apart of this it brings no benefit^^
Athenasius
July 29, 2014 at 23:50
Most people are forgetting that the majority of current Mantle games are being made with limited numbers of draw calls as the games were made within the limits of directx, although performance is still improved overall in most circumstances with more regular frame times making the games smoother and higher performance on lower end processors.
Only once games start taking advantage of higher numbers of draw calls by making far more dynamic and unique environments, will the advantages be seen properly over directx.
Charl van der Merwe
July 30, 2014 at 08:19
Why is this even news? NO SHIT Nvidia is gonna dissaprove.I have seen benchmarks and there is a definite performance gain in the first generation of games using it, imagine the gains with better optimization.
What a joke, besides the fact that blow for blow, Radeon cards are much better value for money in every comparison.
Errol The Terrible
July 30, 2014 at 11:01
Hmm, I assume Mantle will be supported on Win7? Guess my next card will be AMD…
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:39
Vista and newer
Charl van der Merwe
July 30, 2014 at 08:19
Why is this even news? NO SHIT Nvidia is gonna dissaprove.I have seen benchmarks and there is a definite performance gain in the first generation of games using it, imagine the gains with better optimization.
Errol The Terrible
July 30, 2014 at 11:01
Hmm, I assume Mantle will be supported on Win7? Guess my next card will be AMD…
GUNSHIN
July 30, 2014 at 14:22
I’ll just leave this here:)
http://www.evetech.co.za/PC-Components/buy-amd-radeon-graphcis-cards-39.aspx
Gareth
August 13, 2014 at 02:06
I came here to show my experiences with Mantle on battlefield 4
I use the HD 7970 3GB GDDR5 Graphics card, Equivalent to the R9 280X.
I have used Dx11 for a long time and only recently learnt that my card supported Mantle….Oh boy 87FPS-90FPS average then suddenly I am now getting 130FPS Average…less Frame drops, more stable frames..it is truly amazing.
ROdNEY
August 29, 2014 at 06:40
And that is the very first game and MANTLE is in beta state, more features and optimization is on a way.