Knight 725847 1

As some of you know, I am not a fan of the topic of “women in gaming”. Sure, it’s trendy, and it keeps popping up over and over again, particularly when someone has been offended about sexism or lack of female protagonists or some other such “woman’s issue”. I actually have been avoiding writing about “women’s topics”, but I feel the need to explain it now.

For me, the essence of the problem boils down to the fact that once you start rising to the defense of women, it implies that they are weak. Whitney Hills is a game designer who has worked at places such as Microsoft Game Studios, Double Fine and HumaNature Studios. She also wrote a brilliant blog that anyone interested in women in the work place, but particularly women in gaming, should read. She discusses times she was discriminated against throughout her career, and the numerous problems she has faced as a woman in gaming, but her conclusion is most telling:

Most people have good hearts and really DON’T want to offend. But when men feel terrified of offending the women they work with, it only contributes to our sense of isolation and inequality. And when particularly motivated and well-intentioned people try to champion my problems and become an Ally in the Great Struggle for Equality, they risk assuming there’s a problem when there is none, and reminding me to feel isolated and powerless in moments when I was just fine. They are often the ones who tense up at the lunch table first and express hope that I wasn’t offended by something. Their efforts make me uncomfortable, and I wish they’d simply listen.

This. No, no, go back and read that quote again. I am a woman, and sure, sometimes I’m offended by people. However, just as much (if not more) harm can be done by the White Knights of the world. By assuming that women are feeling weak and victimized, it puts women in a position to feel like they are isolated and different, in need of protection. When we have highlighted sexism towards men, no one rises to the occasion to protect men – if you think women are so equal, how about letting them voice their concerns instead of immediately assuming you know them?

This leads me to my next point. Feminists. Even Third Wave or Post Feminists themselves have acknowledged that modern society has made  “feminism” a dirty word. Feminists – those are those crazy, easily offended women with hairy under arms who hate men, right? So many women might start a sentence with “Don’t worry, I’m not a feminist…” Right, don’t worry, I’m not a feminist, but I believe that women are human and should get equal treatment, equal pay, equal opportunity. Actually, that’s feminism. However, women/feminists of all walks of life can be offended and feel the need to fight back against different issues. Personally, I have no problem with overtly sexual character design in games. Unless those characters are demeaned or attacked because of their appearance, my opinion is that sexy characters are nice to look at. Women are allowed to claim their sexuality in real life, why not allow characters in games to be strong and sexy? In fact, I find it way less offensive to see sexy, strong women in games than the Princess Peaches of gaming – pretty, helpless women who need rescuing, but somehow always have perfect hair, clothes and accessories.

If you are offended by something, express it! You are more than welcome to! However, don’t feel the need to show some kind of self-righteous indignation over something that really isn’t a problem for you. It doesn’t do anything to help the women you are seeking to defend – it just makes them feel alienated, like they are too weak or stupid to express their feelings, or that they need to prove that they have a tough skin. Oh, and you don’t need to just take my word for it – Hills also explains:

After that, when you meet new people in the game industry, sometimes you go out of your way to swear or say something off-color as quickly as possible, so your new male acquaintances will feel comfortable and won’t feel the need to walk on eggshells. You feel unnatural.

Sure, there will be sexism in gaming. There will also be racism, stereotyping, and the digital divide. People are allowed to be offended by whatever offends them. However, there are plenty of female gamers who will raise the sexism alarm, and even lead boycotts of games based on degrading or inappropriate content. We don’t need White Knight help – you aren’t doing anyone any favors. Also, it just makes you look like you’re trying to get into that crazy, man-hating feminist’s pants, and no one wants that mental image.

Last Updated: September 10, 2013

1.1
was reviewed on PC

170 Comments

  1. Admiral Chief of Rivia

    September 10, 2013 at 12:40

    Going for Batman here?

    Reply

    • Airborne

      September 10, 2013 at 12:41

      Ahem… thats Batperson to you!

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        September 10, 2013 at 12:41

        No, its a title, hence no gender attached

        Reply

        • Airborne

          September 10, 2013 at 12:46

          Ah! See it now!

          Reply

        • Alien Emperor Trevor

          September 10, 2013 at 12:48

          but there’s also a Batwoman, if they’re both Batperson it’ll be confusing :/

          Reply

      • Gavin Mannion

        September 10, 2013 at 12:45

        It is and always will be Batman… apart from that one week when we changed it to Bed Affleck..

        Reply

        • Sageville

          September 10, 2013 at 12:46

          Bed Affleck, Ben’s promiscuous brother.

          Reply

          • Gavin Mannion

            September 10, 2013 at 12:46

            lulz

          • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

            September 10, 2013 at 12:47

            The black sheep of the Affleck family

          • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

            September 10, 2013 at 12:54

            The Charlie Sheen of the Afflecks…. Bed Affleck, a man under covers!

          • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

            September 10, 2013 at 12:58

            Bed Affleck is probably Tired of people making fun of him

          • Hammersteyn

            September 10, 2013 at 12:59

            Charlie Sheen should play the next Batman villain!

          • Airborne

            September 10, 2013 at 12:47

            Well, Bend AndFlick will be the next Batman…

          • Sageville

            September 10, 2013 at 12:59

            Dood, curse you for that disturbing image!

          • Airborne

            September 10, 2013 at 12:52

            I bet he will take that lying down?

        • Alien Emperor Trevor

          September 10, 2013 at 12:46

          I declare that a Freudian slip & I don’t care what you say otherwise.

          Reply

    • Brady miaau

      September 10, 2013 at 12:50

      what, like the servant to a general or other officer? The correct term for a woman in this position is batwoman, by the way.

      🙂

      Sorry, I have been waiting for this for a while now.

      *edit* not that Zoe is eligible for this position, she writes too good

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        September 10, 2013 at 12:52

        Nope, was referring to the Batman of the week title

        Reply

        • Brady miaau

          September 10, 2013 at 12:55

          ah. So capital B as opposed to lower case b then

          my mistake

          Reply

    • John mul-ti-pass

      September 10, 2013 at 12:53

      Batgirl.
      Batman’s voice is all I can hear now.

      Reply

      • Alien Emperor Trevor

        September 10, 2013 at 12:56

        hmmm but Zoe is a hipster after all, and Bat(insert gender preference) is too cool. Maybe Aquaman?

        Reply

        • Vampyre Squirrel

          September 10, 2013 at 13:17

          Nope, Brenda is Aquaman

          Reply

      • Brady miaau

        September 10, 2013 at 12:56

        Alicia Silverstone?

        Ah, look what I did. Bet you thought about possibly one of the worst movies I have ever seen! Hah.

        Mr. Freeze
        Robin

        Reply

        • Admiral Chief of Rivia

          September 10, 2013 at 12:57

          Batnipples

          Reply

          • John mul-ti-pass

            September 10, 2013 at 13:40

            Those damn batnipples

        • John mul-ti-pass

          September 10, 2013 at 13:40

          I was actually thinking of Batgirl from Batman TAS.
          I’m pretending that movie never happened.

          Reply

  2. Airborne

    September 10, 2013 at 12:40

    Good point… like enforcing a quota system, good for the battle, not for the war!

    Reply

  3. Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

    September 10, 2013 at 12:43

    I myself white knight from time to time, but it’s with good intention and it’s not actually to protect females. They have legs no? They can stand on their own. But Even if I come across as a White Knight , Sometimes something must be said to break the cycle in this industry. I’m a male, a White Knight, not for females, but for the industry in general. Now, where is my cape and Stallion!!Excalibur…I CALL THEE

    Reply

  4. PS4H1P5T4

    September 10, 2013 at 12:45

    Yawn…Where’s the pro PS4 news already?

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      September 10, 2013 at 12:49

      Don/Jakster/Hipster/PS4 wondered where you were

      Reply

    • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

      September 10, 2013 at 13:05

      There you are Don.

      Reply

  5. Alex Hicks

    September 10, 2013 at 12:51

    I’m afraid to comment. I agree with the sentiment; and even the conclusion – but I’m afraid to voice this approval as it may put me in the category of those who have good hearts and don’t mean to offend; but do.

    I’m not completely of the school of thought that says that offence can only be taken; not given – but the crux of this article; and the blog that preceded it is that offence has been taken when none was intended – the opposite in fact; and acknowledged as such.

    So where does that leave us? I tend to ignore and let the offended parties sort themselves out. But then am I guilty of sexism by my inaction?

    Reply

  6. Hammersteyn

    September 10, 2013 at 12:53

    Sorry but no. My momma raised me to be a white knight. Be it in the defense of man,woman or animal. That being said, its up to good judgement when to intervene and not stick your nose in where it doesn’t belong.

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      September 10, 2013 at 13:12

      Your comment, is perfect

      Reply

  7. Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

    September 10, 2013 at 12:53

    I have to agree wholeheartedly, there’s a trend lately of excessive and unnecessary white knighting – especially by people that I would consider gaming media leaders. While, misogyny is rife in gaming, and should be tackled, I’ve always maintained that “white knighting” is in itself a sexist gesture, because gross assumptions are made about gender.

    Of course, does that mean men shouldn’t defend the “damsel in distress”? Of course not, but it means that context is important. For instance, if a guy is harassing a female player in a game, then it would be wrong not to intervene or to even report the offending party.

    Reply

    • Hammersteyn

      September 10, 2013 at 12:55

      The perspective must always be to intervene because a player is being harassed for the sake of harassment regardless of gender or age.

      Reply

      • Sageville

        September 10, 2013 at 12:57

        Werd!

        Jim just tripped up on the classic gender defense trap.

        Hence he just white kinghted!

        Reply

        • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

          September 10, 2013 at 13:05

          Context is important, if it’s harassment, and the victim is clearly struggling against the offender, or the situation has become extremely toxic, then you would technically be culpable for not doing anything. Therefore, it wouldn’t actually be a classic gender defense trap.

          Reply

          • Sageville

            September 10, 2013 at 13:27

            I dunno dood, it’s kinda confusing…

            If a douche starts douching on a mate (no gender mentioned) then you should white-knight.(would technically be culpable for not doing anything)

            But…

            If a douche starts douchfying a mate using her gender for douchage then it’s not cool to white knight coz of (see article’s explanation).

            In my opinion, if a douch starts douchefying a mate (gender-unimportant) I will de-douchefy said douch even if he uses gender for douchage. I will ignore the “No white Knight” methodology primarily because we need to reduce the douchebag density online, not because I’m unintentionally undermining the feminist movement.

      • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

        September 10, 2013 at 13:01

        Most definitely, but what we’ve seen so far is an extreme over-sensitivity to gender issues, which while commendable, has also resulted in some of the silliest comments and utterances from people who should actually know better.

        Remember when Sessler lost his mind because of a trophy in God of War, or the bikini torso issue from Dead Island or even the current yawn about Hideo Kojima and the misunderstanding or mistranslation of “erotic” and “sexy”?

        What I found so funny about the drama surrounding Quiet, is that one of the most vocal “white knights” was responsible for Cortana in Halo, and anyone who has played Halo will know that Cortana has become extremely sexualised with each Halo game.

        In that regard, his shock and horror at Quiet, is hypocritical.

        Reply

        • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

          September 10, 2013 at 13:04

          Damn that Quiet debacle was horrible in itself….Even the Sorceroress in Dragon Crown…being labeled as ‘Sexist’ design…without a doubt, there are too many people pushing the Sexism angle for their own gain as well

          Reply

          • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

            September 10, 2013 at 13:06

            That’s my problem with it, it’s not actually about gender but rather about perceptions of sex and sexuality.

          • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

            September 10, 2013 at 13:07

            SEX?! Where! I’ve read about it!

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:12

            ForeverAlone?

          • Sageville

            September 10, 2013 at 13:17

            FAP-a-thon?

          • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

            September 10, 2013 at 13:07

            SEX?! Where! I’ve read about it!

          • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

            September 10, 2013 at 13:09

            Exactly so if the character artist makes a female character that is a bit overly endowed then it’s insulting towards women and sexist. Real sexism occurs when actual discrimination happens towards a person solely because they are female. I’ve seen many big breasted women in video games, and most of them are total bad asses…I would think it is a compliment

          • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

            September 10, 2013 at 13:09

            Exactly so if the character artist makes a female character that is a bit overly endowed then it’s insulting towards women and sexist. Real sexism occurs when actual discrimination happens towards a person solely because they are female. I’ve seen many big breasted women in video games, and most of them are total bad asses…I would think it is a compliment

    • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

      September 10, 2013 at 12:56

      That is where the fine line exists….do we intervene because the person being harassed is a female or are we intervening because the harassment is just plain wrong. to us, we know what we are doing is right..but to everyone else it seems like we are white knighting. We should always just intervene regardless of race, gender etc

      Reply

      • Brady miaau

        September 10, 2013 at 13:20

        Some good food for thought, both you and Sir Banana.

        Hmm, interesting. Where is the line? i sometimes struggle

        Reply

        • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

          September 10, 2013 at 13:21

          My view…As long as your intention and heart is in a good place, we shouldn’t worry about the line

          Reply

    • Lourens Jordaan

      September 10, 2013 at 13:10

      But the point is that woman can fend for themselves. They can report the offending party themselves. And any intervention from your part would only further embarrass whoever is being harrassed. All I’m saying is that I’ll make my own sammich and she can make one for herself.

      Reply

      • Weanerdog

        September 10, 2013 at 13:46

        Yip but because you are a guy you are going to have a crappy jam sammich and she is going to have a mega uber brilliant sammich with pickles and everything and then you realise the problem is not the making of the sandwich but on how you ask.

        Reply

        • Spathi

          September 10, 2013 at 13:47

          I’m hungry..

          Reply

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:48

            i make awesome sandwiches!!! and food doing Catering in college really helped me 🙂

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            September 10, 2013 at 13:53

            In that case you can make everyone a sammich, Tanya.

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 14:02

            not falling for that again

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 14:06

            Man you set that one up, and @disqus_DoEH3TsffU:disqus just HAD to knock it down.

        • Lourens Jordaan

          September 10, 2013 at 14:08

          True, very true.

          Reply

    • Lourens Jordaan

      September 10, 2013 at 13:10

      But the point is that woman can fend for themselves. They can report the offending party themselves. And any intervention from your part would only further embarrass whoever is being harrassed. All I’m saying is that I’ll make my own sammich and she can make one for herself.

      Reply

  8. Sageville

    September 10, 2013 at 12:55

    Frankly the gaming industry and female gaming community send so many mixed messages when it comes to gender issues.

    Scantily clad women – genetically speaking men will like / some women are offended others think it’s hot and sexy. I get the white knight syndrome you describe, but I do feel that’s a product of all these mixed messages.

    Wimmins! Yous been hoist in ur own petard!

    Reply

  9. Spathi

    September 10, 2013 at 12:57

    Damn man, woman, or hermaphrodite, all the PC stuff is so complicated. It’s kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    I’m not sure I understand the article exactly. Would women prefer men to not fuss about their issues iro feminism? If indeed, I wholeheartedly disagree with the article. I have my own values and morals. If someone is an asshole, I will confront him. Nothing to do with women not being up to it, it has everything to do with my own values. Please don’t tell me how to react.

    If I understand the article incorrectly, I apologize.

    Reply

  10. Craig Deubler

    September 10, 2013 at 13:00

    Its a fine line between “White Nighting” and smacking down a douchebag. It’s not about standing up for women, it’s about calling out things that cross a line. If men accept it, it becomes acceptable.

    Reply

  11. CrasH

    September 10, 2013 at 13:00

    Woman POW, POW, POWER… 😛
    I find it all funny, but then again i am no white knight.
    In the persuit for equal rights and equal pay and equal everything then you must be able to take equal insults, slander, bad mouth, bad gossip as the rest and be able to deal with it yourself.
    I grew up being the smallest, skinny kid in school and even in metric their were a few std 6 bigger than me, i only started to grow really when i was 20 years old and now i am not that small kid any more, but I went through every insult, fight, gossip, childish junk and every new job or area your the new target and there is always going to jokes that over step the line and comments that people dont like, male, female, black, white, gray, asian, dog, cat and all the rest.

    So its nice to see an atricle that says get over it and i can do it myself

    Reply

  12. David Muller

    September 10, 2013 at 13:01

    So the problem isn’t the underlying issue, the problem is the people pointing out that there is an underlying issue?

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      September 10, 2013 at 13:11

      Hehe, have an upvote, made me laugh

      Reply

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      September 10, 2013 at 13:11

      ISSUE_CEPTION

      Reply

  13. Hammersteyn

    September 10, 2013 at 13:02

    Maybe we can’t help it on the other hand, being the white knight? Mario saves the princess,Link saves Zelda and even with Donkey Kong you need to rescue the girl from the ape. How many games does that role reverse. It’s not just game either. Child hood stories, books, TV and mostly movies. Men are spoon fed to be knights and women are convinced to be victims.

    Reply

  14. Mike

    September 10, 2013 at 13:03

    I find white knights in multiplayer games very annoying. I used to play a strategy game where some of the top 10 players were female.They were good at the game, yet too often when they were attacked someone else would try to stick up for them. Usually in the line of calling the person a coward for attacking a women and actually getting angry about it.
    As if the female players were too weak to defend themselves in a video game.

    Reply

  15. RincemySniperKittEH0-O

    September 10, 2013 at 13:04

    Zoe, when you need my White Knight skills later when all the fems are out baying for your soul, I will say ‘NAY!’ Trolol! Nice article as usual though.

    Reply

    • Her Highness the Hipster

      September 10, 2013 at 13:15

      you can’t be a white knight with red wine stains on all your shirts 😛

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        September 10, 2013 at 13:15

        OH SNAP!!!!!

        Reply

      • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

        September 10, 2013 at 13:17

        I don’t know what you mean! *Hick, spill… DRIP

        Reply

      • Alien Emperor Trevor

        September 10, 2013 at 13:52

        See now you’re just being judgmental. Instead of seeing that he is a man of taste & sophistication, as clearly indicated by his clothes, your immediate reaction is to dismiss him as a filthy hobo.

        Reply

        • Sageville

          September 10, 2013 at 13:53

          The wine bottle hidden in a brown paper bag gets him dismissed as a hobo

          Reply

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            September 10, 2013 at 13:55

            Don’t judge the bottle by its packaging. :/

  16. Rags

    September 10, 2013 at 13:07

    Well said Z.

    Reply

  17. Rags

    September 10, 2013 at 13:07

    Well said Z.

    Reply

  18. ElimiNathan

    September 10, 2013 at 13:10

    So tired of reading about this. Lets just go back to it being about the games ppl!

    Reply

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      September 10, 2013 at 13:10

      Indeed. Gamers. Not fem/male gamers, just blerrie gamers

      Reply

      • Spathi

        September 10, 2013 at 13:13

        People, not men/women/asian/black/white/BMW/Merc/PS3/XBO/Christian/Muslim/Atheist etc. So fucking tired of all this. Maybe it’s just because we in SA are so sensitive about being PC. And here I go on again.

        Anyway, please note that I didn’t list “gingers” as people. They aren’t.

        Reply

        • Her Highness the Hipster

          September 10, 2013 at 13:14

          indeed – they have no souls 😉

          Reply

          • Mark Treloar

            September 10, 2013 at 13:25

            This

        • Admiral Chief of Rivia

          September 10, 2013 at 13:14

          XD @ gingers

          Reply

        • Sageville

          September 10, 2013 at 13:15

          Gingers….(Shudder)

          Reply

        • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

          September 10, 2013 at 13:18

          Good… because gingers don’t have souls, and it wouldn’t be discrimination because they’re not people….. :p

          Reply

          • Sageville

            September 10, 2013 at 13:44

            Somehow, someday, somewhere, the ginger chirps will get to you…

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:44

            Rince is half a ginger

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:45

            Rince is awesome! But that doesn’t make him human.

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:46

            I Pitty Him thats why I let him mock me, as Gingers dont have much fun..

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:53

            *pity
            *him
            *gingers

          • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

            September 10, 2013 at 14:01

            Oh dear oh dear oh dear. So close to completing your quest, and now you have to start this level again. You must enjoy this, I mean, kicking a ginger is silly, we have nothing to lose and MUCH to give…

          • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

            September 10, 2013 at 14:03

            And the other half is pure, fucking, evil

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            September 10, 2013 at 14:11

            Yes, but what is the other half? 😛

          • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

            September 10, 2013 at 14:14

            0-O

        • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

          September 10, 2013 at 13:19

        • Brady miaau

          September 10, 2013 at 13:30

          Absolutely.

          Besides, we all know the Merc is far superior in every way to the BMW.

          Reply

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:32

            Downvoted for the heresy!

            Edit: Reversed. I feel bad about downvoting people. Except Jakster/Don/PS4Hipsta/Attentionseeking dipshit.

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 13:37

            Yeah, yeah.

            All good 🙂

            What heresy?

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:41

            I’m pretty much car agnostic, except when it comes to American cars. They pretty much suck all-round. But a BMW is a better driver’s car than an Merc. Merc is more comfortable and the cabin feels a bit more upmarket. Merc is FWD which is so safe, while BMW is RWD, for real men 😀 (There are exceptions through-out each manufacturers range obviously for all things listed)

          • Her Highness the Hipster

            September 10, 2013 at 13:42

            american cars are awesome in the states – when they get exported they are gutted of all their power 🙁

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:43

            In die land van die blindes is die een oog koning 😉

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:43

            what!!! where you hear that from Zoe??? Muscle car is what a muscle car wants! a monster!!!

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:34

            But can they be thrown around corner’s?

            My wife had a small Spark, 800cc. Great car, it loved being thrown around corners, back and forth. Fun to drive.

            Hers was a Daewoo Matisse rebranded as a Chev Spark

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:49

            Blik Met Wiele

            nuff said

            Then again, BMW much better than the other countries…

            GERMAN CARS FTW

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:33

            You are correct, the BMW, on average, likes being pushed round corners, that type of thing.

            But a Merc is so comfortable, so easy to drive. Just luxury, not in fancy electronics, but built right into the chassis.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:39

            Audi better than both. But yes, Merc >>> BMW

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:42

            It is like you want me to say things I will regret! And no! Audi with their 4WD are for grannies 😛

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:48

            Spathi please, whatchootalkinbout

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:50

            whats truely sad is Porsche 4WD that thing is soooo sad!! same as X5 bloody useless off road

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:51

            Yeah. The All-Wheel drive ML is brilliant off-road though. Really is. Even without the off-road package.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:51

            Touareg FTW

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:54

            I’ve never driven one or been a passenger either, so don’t know. But they are so expensive for a VW 😉

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:55

            Aye, but you get what you pay for. I know, 600k is entry level, BUTOHSWEETMERCIFULSOCKS the “entry level” is just “next level”

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:30

            The Cayenne actually turned Porsche profits around. May have been a sell out and kak and all that, but it sold

          • Sageville

            September 10, 2013 at 13:42

            You crack me up dood! ROFL!

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:44

            Porche better than Audi

          • Spathi

            September 10, 2013 at 13:44

            *Porsche. And YES!

          • TiMsTeR1033

            September 10, 2013 at 13:45

            yeah my spelling sucks lately… Spell check has made me lazy.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:48

            Both owned by VW, so they all cool

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:29

            Yeeeeesssss. Because being owned by VW is the epitome of cool.

            🙂

    • Admiral Chief of Rivia

      September 10, 2013 at 13:10

      Indeed. Gamers. Not fem/male gamers, just blerrie gamers

      Reply

  19. ElimiNathan

    September 10, 2013 at 13:10

    So tired of reading about this. Lets just go back to it being about the games ppl!

    Reply

  20. Brady miaau

    September 10, 2013 at 13:17

    My position:

    I am sort of, well, trained. I will stand when a woman enters the room. I will offer my chair to A) a woman or B) the elderly.

    By natural instinct I will assist an elderly person with their groceries, if I see it is a struggle.

    This is how I was taught growing up, particularly the influence of my paternal Grandparents. My schooling also served to reinforce that.

    but to protect (or offer chair or whatever) where protection is not needed is to degrade and that took me a few years to understand, the distinction. I still struggle sometimes to perceive the difference.

    I do, however, become extremely upset when I am berated by a woman for helping or offering to help. Do not assume I want to degrade you. Perhaps I am a human and you are a human and I want to help you. I would do the same for a man. If I am entering a doorway, I hold the door for the next PERSON, man, woman or child.

    Reply

    • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

      September 10, 2013 at 13:17

      Well said.

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        September 10, 2013 at 13:19

        Ditto

        Reply

    • Umar Final Fantasy 15 Hopeful

      September 10, 2013 at 13:20

      Nothing wrong with being a gentleman 🙂

      Reply

      • RincemySniperKittEH0-O

        September 10, 2013 at 13:22

        I am glad you agree. When does your training start? BOOM! *runs

        Reply

    • Her Highness the Hipster

      September 10, 2013 at 13:25

      nothing wrong with being a gentleman or having manners. issue comes in with white knighting – protecting women when there’s nothing to protect them from 😉

      Reply

    • TiMsTeR1033

      September 10, 2013 at 13:28

      Im glad to hear that man. I was raised in similar way and everyday I always open the car door for my wife and hold the door open for the next person.. Yes I might not appear to be that person on Lazygamer as this is my crazy side but in real life Im a gentleman and proud to be so.

      Reply

      • Brady miaau

        September 10, 2013 at 13:33

        Good for you! I think it is very important.

        I no longer hold the car door for my wife, at her request. (present pregnant state excluded)

        I call it basic consideration for others.

        I have found though, that when I fail at this (and we all do every now and again, self absorbed, thinking too deep thoughts, not paying attention to world around) it seems much worse than if other people fail, because there is a burden of expectation.

        Reply

        • Sageville

          September 10, 2013 at 13:37

          I’ve been kakked on for holding a door for a lady and also for not holding a door for a lady. (different ladies)

          Reply

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:15

            Indeed. Makes me livid, to be honest.

        • Admiral Chief of Rivia

          September 10, 2013 at 13:38

          Natural birth?

          Reply

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:15

            No, there are several health issues with Mommy that make natural birth not a good idea.

            How shall, I put this: she has a pacemaker type device to aid in Kidney Function and has had one for 12 years. And that is only one reason.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 14:16

            Aye, say no more. When is the date, so that we can all wish her (and you) well for that day?

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:28

            22 November

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 14:45

            Well let me know closer to the date, so we all can wish her well!

          • Brady miaau

            September 10, 2013 at 14:55

            will do

        • TiMsTeR1033

          September 10, 2013 at 13:39

          You see the world we live in today, there are very few good guys out there with solid upbringing, I mean we have moments everyday where we can choose to be like many or like the way we were raised. For example always saying thank you where its due, Complimenting people on good work, not swearing at the taxis when they cut you off.. ect..

          You put it very well “basic consideration for others” and thats the way I raise my daughter, treat others how you want to be treated.. In all honesty goes along way in life.

          Reply

          • Alien Emperor Trevor

            September 10, 2013 at 13:40

            Inderdaad.

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:40

            Heh

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:40

            *a long

            But yes, I hear ya dude. Well put

  21. Alien Emperor Trevor

    September 10, 2013 at 13:27

    I believe in equal treatment & that women are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves – don’t need me jumping to their defense on their behalf. The only time I’ll consider doing it differently is if there looks to be a mob mentality and/or blatant bullying – in which case I’ll help a person, their gender is irrelevant to me. There’s always lines & grey areas.

    The reason I objected to the Quiet character was because I think it’s silly to have a female super soldier who’s only wearing underwear – and that the only reason for it was to overemphasize sexuality. I quite like the statuette itself.

    Quite frankly, if I’m playing a 3rd person game I’m more likely to have a female avatar. If I’m spending hours with a pair of hips in front of my eyes and I have a choice in the matter, they might as well be attractive to me. That said, I don’t run them around naked either.

    Reply

    • Brady miaau

      September 10, 2013 at 13:36

      Um, yes. If a game gives me a choice of gender, I always play a female. When I played AD&D or Star Wars or Whatever role playing games, 90% of the time i played a female.

      Part of that is sort of a reflection on society, I am going to have this crazy Thief / Mage, who can do all those weird and wonderful things, and it will be a woman! in your face, poorly conceived society!

      Reply

  22. Alien Emperor Trevor

    September 10, 2013 at 13:36

    Is the irony intentional in the header image – with the knight being a blockhead? 😉

    Reply

    • Jim Lenoir (Banana Jim)

      September 10, 2013 at 13:37

      Hahahaha! Upvoted!

      Reply

    • Sageville

      September 10, 2013 at 13:38

      But, that’s playmobile not Lego!

      (why do I know that?)

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        September 10, 2013 at 13:39

        Lego >>>>>>>> Playmobil (no E at end)

        Reply

        • Sageville

          September 10, 2013 at 13:40

          You shame me Sir!

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:41

            Aye, but you are forgiven, since its inferior to Lego

  23. Kyrelimit

    September 10, 2013 at 13:45

    What I love in all of this, in all the “Poltically Correct Gaming” and so on and so fourth is that sometimes even the victims have more “rights” than some other minorities,?

    Wheres the Gay character league, against the fact that barely any gay characters exist ( outside of Sims , Fable and some Rockstar Games ) and if they do, its the most obnoxious flamboyant gay person that even Elton John would cringe and cover his eyes for,

    And I don’t think I’ve ever found a lesbian in a game, ( again outside Sims, Fable and Rockstar Games ) , not a single moment pops to mind, and Im not even talking about some crazy bewbfest kinda lesbian, but oh look, that bad-ass chick that just killed an army just made out with her GF, “SAY WHUUUT ?”

    While the feminists of gaming like to cry about “their stereotypical roles in gaming”, what about the others stereotypes. Does it not concern them since they are obviously not gay men or lesbian woman ? Or is it each for their own. If so… then why would developers ever change their strategy and objectification of women ?

    Which leads me to this, if the feminist gamer’s don’t want white knights as in a way it feels alienating then WHAT do the feminist games want. A White Knight Developer who says no to big boobs ? ( since we all know there will be WAY more sales at the cost of ethics, which shows the nature of the gaming audience )

    What is fairness in a game ? What are the rules that will bend the storytelling ?

    So. The final question of a hundred. What is equality in gaming ?

    Reply

    • SaintsRowLee

      September 10, 2013 at 14:06

      Mass Effect 3?

      Reply

      • Kyrelimit

        September 10, 2013 at 14:14

        You’re right but again its that ‘bland generic RPG’ character. Its almost like they give them free-will but just didnt ‘block’ the options for same-sex interactions or whatever. (Unless Im completely wrong as I havent played the game )

        But Im talking about,
        “Oh look, The Lead Character in Last Of Us is a gay dude. Oh. Okay.”

        Not,
        “Oh look, they didnt block Kissing boys in Bully” if that makes any sense ?

        Reply

        • Kromas

          September 10, 2013 at 14:19

          I think he meant the pilot in ME3. He was def not a stereotypical gay.

          Edit by pilot I mean the small ship pilot. Can’t recall his name but not Joker.

          Reply

          • Kyrelimit

            September 10, 2013 at 14:53

            I just googled it and yeah, I think it was a dude Cortez. But again, its like an optional side option. If you character is female it works the same way, I think. But either way, its really nice to see at least one or two games have it.

            Compared to… A lot of others. Ahahah.

  24. Sageville

    September 10, 2013 at 13:55

    Feels like a sausage fest in here.

    Reply

    • Alien Emperor Trevor

      September 10, 2013 at 13:57

      Hmm now I’m hungry. Maybe I should pop round the corner & get a boerie roll.

      Reply

      • Admiral Chief of Rivia

        September 10, 2013 at 13:57

        With onion rings and Mrs Balls chutney

        Reply

        • Alien Emperor Trevor

          September 10, 2013 at 13:58

          No onions, I don’t believe in cloud power.

          Reply

          • Admiral Chief of Rivia

            September 10, 2013 at 13:59

            Pfff, I do my own private cloud. And some hybrid cloud as well. Mind you, I don’t shy for public cloud as well 😉

  25. Kromas

    September 10, 2013 at 14:16

    I consider myself a true gamer. Mind you I do not play professionally or have over 9000 hours in CoD (hell I have 14 hours in BF3). What I do however have is the ability to buy a game,play it and enjoy it for what it is. Yeah I have a female Shepard (cause frankly if I have to stare at a bum I would rather stare at a female bum) and my 8 year old wow character is male. I have not ever considered the ramifications of gender/race in a game unless the game actually is about that. I have finished tomb raider and I can honestly say the “rape” scene would have gone very unnoticed if not for the controversy around it. So what I am trying to say to everyone debating (read whining) about any such topic is: “STOP YOUR SH1T AND PLAY THE GAME”

    Reply

  26. Craig Lotter

    September 10, 2013 at 19:38

    Have to agree. Every time you talk about an issue you make it come to the fore, instead of it just silently stepping out the back door.

    Reply

  27. Gideon Venter

    September 11, 2013 at 09:56

    So, men shouldn’t raise the sexism alarm, that’s a woman’s job? Sexist much? ;P

    Also, there’s this bit: “Right, don’t worry, I’m not a feminist, but I believe that women are human and should get equal treatment, equal pay, equal opportunity. Actually, that’s feminism.”

    That’s not Feminism, that’s equality. Feminism implies the promotion of women’s rights, not everyone’s rights. I support this. I’m not a feminist. I don’t think Women are better than men, or men better than women.

    I sort of see what you’re trying to say here Zoe, but I can’t support this position. You came off as sexist. Unintentional, I’m sure, and no, I’m not offended, I just think some of what you said is wrong.

    I do agree we don’t need these so called White Knights, since most of them go about it the wrong way, as you mentioned, or have alternate intentions, also as you mentioned. You wanna champion equality? Great, but then champion everyone’s equality.

    A lot of the time we see sexism where it isn’t. Honestly, I’m making a bigger deal of your article than it is I think, because like I said, I don’t think you intended to be sexist, but still feel the two points I raised above are valid.

    Reply

  28. Farty Fartsalot

    August 27, 2015 at 21:21

    Oh please. Women love white knights. Getting showered with attention & not having to worry about rewarding them with sex. So shut up with the double standards & go make me a sandwich!

    Reply

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