ID’s Rage – The PS3 Is Struggling, The 360 Isn’t.

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Rage

Here’s some incredibly surprising news; Yet another developer is bemoaning the Playstation 3’s stilted architecture and having a tough time getting their game to run well on Sony’s 3rd place, current-gen wonderbox. A broken record that PS3 fans must be getting pretty tired of hearing. With almost every 3rd party developer having similar concerns a full three years in to it’s life cycle, you have to start thinking that they’re not unfounded.

While the PC and 360 versions of the still-heavily-in-development game are already running at a smooth 60 fps, the PS3 is barely managing to reach half that, chugging along between 20 and 30 fps. The reason, according to Id’s John Carmack isn’t “lazy developers,” but rather an issue of hardware.

"The PS3 lags a little bit behind in terms of getting the performance out of it," John Carmack told Edge Magazine. "The rasteriser is just a little bit slower – no two ways about that. "The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that’s what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3," he said. That’s the power of the Cell, folks.

The PS3 version was originally considered to end up being the better of the console versions, on account of the uncompressed textures the capacity of Blu-ray afforded, but it seems that belief may rapidly be changing – and maybe PS3 fans are gonna have to keep on listening to that scratchy old record.

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The game, of course is nowhere near completion – and all versions may run similarly by the time it’s out. If not though, it’ll be yet another feather in the cap of the console that – on paper – has inferior specs.

Source : Edge, via CVG

Last Updated: July 31, 2009

Geoffrey Tim

Editor. I’m old, grumpy and more than just a little cynical. One day, I found myself in possession of a NES, and a copy of Super Mario Bros 3. It was that game that made me realise that games were more than just toys to idly while away time – they were capable of being masterpieces. I’m here now, looking for more of those masterpieces.

  • spl0it

    First let me say “Xbox Rules, PS3 drools”

    Fanboi rant out of the way, I can’t believe there isn’t any decent middleware that these developers can use to get around theses problems.

  • darthdad

    First let me say “Xbox drules, PS3 rools”

    Fanboi rant out of the way, I can’t believe there isn’t any decent middleware that these developers can use to get around theses problems. :ninja:

  • easy

    ground hog day returns… :sleeping:

  • 0rk0

    Ha!

    This morning when we read this article on Joystiq.com, we just knew you won’t be able to resist the temptation.

    One only has to look at your review box in the upper right corner to see which you prefer.

    ID is used to programming on the PC so it’s no wonder the xbox version is running better…yawn.

  • Personally, I prefer the Nintendo DS – but we only review what we’re given by distributors.

  • easy

    :blink: there are only xbox review copies is sa!

    dang, thats a shocker :shocked:

  • janrik

    Ouch. Nother blow to the cash black hole that is the ps3.

  • janrik

    So teh CEll not that great hu?

    The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that’s what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3…

    And 360 has better GPU and easier memory management.

  • Carmack, use middleware? Hahahahaha!

  • Well, if you’re going to make a console and developers are used to making things in specific ways, surely it would be a good idea to let them do COOLER stuff in ways they already understand – that way they’ll all be super keen to work on your hardware – right?

    You make it sound like it’s the developer’s fault that they have to do unorthodox things on hardware they didn’t design… Fanboy “logic” fail.

  • @OrkO

    We play what we get

  • Lately,after dealing with 4 (EFFIN!) 360 swopouts from Mi Digital and Look n’ Listen. . . ,Ive just bought games based on reliability. . ,which is why I bought zero 360 multi format games in 2009. . . ,played Mass Effect yesterday. .my 2008 pro freezing alot. . .disc reading problems,so Im expecting it to die,so I bought my buddys arcade 360 today for R900..i just dont want to deal with swopouts again. . . , thats why I’ll buy Rage for my PS3

  • easy

    then that surely begs the question as to why some devs don’t have any problems while others do?
    and seeing that the ps3 architecture is ‘new’ and different, surely after 3 years they would’ve maybe come up with a way to make it work?

  • Kale

    My question is: there are companies saying the PS3 is not that hard to develop for and there are companies saying it’s crap to develop for.
    My question is why does Resistance 1 and 2 look so good (respectively). Why did Drakes Fortune blow us away, Infamous seems more than capable. MGS4, Heavenly Sword, all great looking games that run smooth yet whenever a company wants to port a game the PS3 is inferior.
    Sounds to me like lazy development. Sounds to me like they are not willing to take the time to re-engineer the system to take advantage of the PS3. (Understandably for cost purposes)
    I’m no expert on processors, HDD’s or male goats (what ever they make these things of) I’m just asking…

  • fred

    Hope they can teach Valve how to code for the ps3 once they get it right.

  • Darthpenguin

    I agree with you.. except Resistance 1 looking good???

    Please.. that game looks crap! That is not a title you namedrop when trying to make the PS3 look good.. thats the title xbox fanboys drop to make the PS3 look bad!!

    And let me say “Xbox Rules, PS3 drools”

    Fanboi rant out of the way 😛

  • janrik

    Some PS3 exclusives look good yes. Most multiplatform games look worse on PS3 than on Ps3.

    “Sounds to me like lazy development. Sounds to me like they are not willing to take the time to re-engineer the system to take advantage of the PS3”

    Yep, would you do that, to only sell another few 100 000 copies?

    Game sales on the PS3 is also worse than on the 360.

    360 is making devs money. PS3 not so mutch.

  • The way I understand it is that making games this generation is prohibitively expensive; 1st party and exclusive titles benefit from the fact that all their money and time is going in to making that game, for that platform.

    When you’re a 3rd party developer making a multiplatform game you have to lead on a certain platform, and do porting later. With budget and time constraints you’re inevitably spreading your resources a little thinner, and that’s before you’ve encountered problems porting code between different architectures.

  • Bboy

    So how long is that video of the PS3 running? starting to get a little boring 😛

    John Carmack smack talking the PS3, ouch for Sony.

  • easy

    then why not lead on the hardest platform then port, seeing as the 360 is so easy? surely the costs would be lowered that way… less head scratching and more work always makes more money.

    but still, your (not you personally) explanation sounds like bs to me. if you as a company struggle with an aspect of what service/product you supply, you either concentrate on bettering that aspect or cut it out totally.

    so it is laziness, purely due to the prospect of selling that extra 100-200k copies.

  • darthdad

    Is this game coming out this month?
    Have they still got time to get the PS3
    version running smoothly I wonder?

  • 0rk0

    And none of you own another console or its games? :blink: :pinch:

  • Most of us actually own the full house – Ps3, 360, Wii, Ds, PSP – but as stated, we review what we get given by the distributors. If we get given a 360 copy, that’s what gets reviewed.

  • 0rk0

    Sure, go get your fire wood or else you won’t eat tonight…

  • 0rk0

    ..the rest of us who have tried new methods will use our Microwaves…

  • Hi 0rk0,

    Just to confirm what is being stated here, we generally only review the titles sent through to us. I would 90% of the review titles received are on the Xbox 360. We state the platform in the review for accuracy.

    Yes we also own a bunch of PS3 games that we haven’t reviewed but reviewing is a job and I am not going to force the guys to review a game that they have picked up with their own money.

    I personally find the accusations childish but it isn’t my story so I can say that :tongue:

  • 1. Stream processor architectures aren’t new, they’re what make graphics cards fast and they’ve been used in mainframes for decades. IBM has a chip that kicks the crap out of the Cell, you just don’t hear about it because it’s not the “core” of a console. People use it to multiplex gigabit network streams and rip packets apart on the fly.

    2. Experience shows us that certain things are good for specific purposes. We know that games use branching logic structures and rapid memory fetches that “normal” CPUs are really good at… Different tools for different jobs.

    In short: Good luck frying something in that microwave 🙂 I’ll keep using mine when I need to heat something evenly with high water content – because that’s what it’s good for.

  • easy

    ummm… “IBM has a chip that kicks the crap out of the Cell”

    http://www.research.ibm.com/cell/

  • Who are the devs that speak out about their PS3 issues? Third-party developers working on multiple SKUs for different consoles. People that don’t have agreements with a first-party provider governing what they can and cannot say 🙂

    It’s not about some people having problems while others don’t, it’s literally about devs who have choice vs devs that have no choice and HAVE to develop on a particular platform.

  • Are IBM not allowed to make tech that’s different to their Cell publicity storm? 😉

  • easy

    basically what you advocating, if i’m reading between the lines correctly, that multi-plat dev’s should produce substandard games for the ps3 because of difficulties involved… its a sad thing my job doesn’t require those choices… everything has to be 100% perfect otherwise i loose my job.

    speaking of which, its time to go to the pub!

  • easy

    damn… i was almost out of here.

    ibm will continually produce cpu’s that will kick the collective ‘craps’ of what they produced before. i just thought it was an odd statement to make 😉

  • Yes, the game market is different and unscrupulous publishers lead to some dodgy stuff coming out, but that’s not my point…

    I’m saying that people who are free to complain about something will always be louder than people who are legally bound and gagged 😉

  • wouter

    Who cares what ID thinks anyway. The PS3 doesn’t need ID’s games, it has enough brilliant games already.

    And all this negative press of the PS3 doesn’t change the fact that the X360 is still a piece of overrated shit, regardless of how many IDIOTS have bought it and how easy it is to code for.

    If you have a PS3, then be happy, because you really do have the best console on the market.

  • Shodan

    Ok so without even wondering if this is a PS3 VS XBOX Debate…Again…And again… Im just wondering why then is Uncharted 2 looking so awesome, why arent they struggling?

    Is it just because its not being ported or what. Why arent they coming up with any excuses seems like they are just delivering a game that seems pretty awesome to me…

  • Fudzy

    As it was well put in this post on a MyBB thread:

    “Or that Carmack is only good at being a PC developer. You don’t hear of Polyphony complaining with on GT5. or Konami with MGS4. Or studio Liverpool with WipeoutHD.”

  • WitWolfZA

    Dont blame ya, im planning to modify my next xbox. Im thinking o putting it in a PC tower and pimping it with fans. Screw the warranty who needs a warranty if it never overheats 😎

  • WitWolfZA

    i object.even Kojima stated that time he had problems coding for MGS 4. But he also said.. the longer you play with it the more it delivers. Might explain why Gt5 has been in the making for so long

  • And Wipeout HD had some initial development issues.

    I don’t think anyone thinks the PS3 is an easy platform to develop on

  • Seems the only people that do think it’s easy to develop for are the fanboys who’ll never develop anything on ANY hardware 😉

  • wouter

    Maybe so, but the only thing the xbots will develop, is pubic hair.

  • Yawn!Oh my god,people can get all bitchy about crap.
    I read all the comments on that article and it amazes me
    how people go on and on about how lazy the dev is or how
    he doesn’t know what he’s doing.All the dude said was
    that they have some problems developing on that platform,but he’s sure they’ll have it running at the same
    fps by release.That doesn’t sound lazy to me.The dude is just saying what they’re encountering.Personally I think
    there’s too many people on the internet that cannot freaking READ.

  • Pietie ZA

    Most of you guys don’t know much about software development do you? And even less about id Software. id Software always focuses on the PC first. So yeah, getting the Xbox version to run is a lot easier than the PS3 version because the PC and Xbox are so similar. Development costs are immense and time is another issue.

    Making it for the PS3 “first” and then porting to the other two is not an option because it would create the same problem in that the PC and Xbox versions would then be difficult to port.

    This is a small development studio that are attempting to make a AAA title featuring a combo of two genres (fps and racing), a new IP for all 3 platforms simultaniously! Lazy development?! I don’t think so. They even planning a Mac version for crying out loud! Kojima and Naughty Dog make sequels for only the PlayStation system.

    This is why most of the mutiplatform titles dont look quite as good on the PS3 as those exclusives do. The developers have to balance development time and cost to make their games “good enough” on all supported platforms.

    Even if the PS3 is “better” tech, it is unfortunately the odd one out from a developers point of view.

    Carmack speaks his mind as a developer and merely stated that they are having trouble with the PS3 version ATM. The game is still probably more than a year away.

    Why would the PS3 users/market even care? id software hasn’t done a game for the PlayStation ever and those 4 or 5 titles that were ported over to the PS/PS2 had horrible sales.

  • Ozzy

    you are so right. who cares?. the ps3 library is excellent and doesnt need id’s games at all. maby they should stop dev on the ps3 and concentrate on the other versions. if we really desperate to play, there is always the pc.

  • In the immortal words of Nick…

    ZIIIIING :tongue:

  • WitWolfyZA

    I agree. Now lets play some freaking games!

  • Kale

    You forgot to include the “(Understandably for cost purposes)” part of my point.

    I fully understand the reasoning and I would do the same as a game developer, but don’t tell me it’s cause the hardware is inferior and not lazy development, that’s just rubbish.

  • Ozzy

    i thought what wouter said was damn funny :devil: partly because its kinda true :biggrin:

    far to many kids on live. psn seems to have better population.

  • Ozzy

    not a blow to anything actually. only in your own mind. nobody actually cares.

  • Ozzy

    janprick has a way of talking rubbish. he hates the ps3 and the community. overheard him on live some time ago. try to ignore him. most people do.

  • janrik

    LOL. Dude I have a PS3 and it does exclusives very well. Multiplatform, not so good.

    :whistle:

  • not to mention more memory which is also important..

    uncompressed textures LOL they make me laugh when i read that..

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